I'm trying to get away from the constant long breaks, lunches, wasted time, cheating hours, etc. I want to put them on piece rate. For a 1 story, 4/12 pitch, 1 layer shingle, renail plywood and dry in with 30 lb. What's a good rate? I'm in Florida near Tampa. I supply all the tools, trucks, equipment. And I pay the dump fee.
It amazes me how Employees consider their worth compared to their value- when the better you treat them the more they stretch advantage and do less.
A couple days ago I had a conversation with another Roofing Contractor and he is onto something.
This is his story: Had three crews on the books. Switched these three crews to the responsibility of the Foreman (who is now a sub) and has set cost per job before the Foreman gets to the job. The foreman doesn't run materials, run estimates or calculate jobs, just get them done the way they were trained initially.
Materials this guys price and profit/ overhead. Seems too easy. The alliance to this response to your post is this- when the productivity slips in the form of timing, that crew gets shifted to third on call and they know it so the foreman- who is directly responsible for the pay to his crew. Still Roofing Contractors tools, and trucks so the Foreman is still locked in. This may be the best "Checks and Balances" I've ever heard- in this business.
BTW he set up the Foremen with Insurances so they are legit- so he said, and not the point.
Pricing varies.Since your in Florida I would p.m roof lover.There are other Florida contractors/roofers here but roof lover is the most active and I am pretty sure he is in your area.
"I'm trying to get away from the constant long breaks, lunches, wasted time, cheating hours, etc. I want to put them on piece rate."
Spend more time on the job?...
In my area of BC, Canada a per square roofer can expect around $8 - $12 per square (1 layer, 4/12) just for tearing off and cleaning up. Papering is part of the install price which can be around $25 -$35 per square. Go down to Vancouver and guys get upwards of $50-$60 per square installed, but their cost of living is twice as much.
How is the quality of the work your guys are doing now? It may decline once you start paying per square. But if they are a prideful bunch then you should see efficiency increase along with productivity, while keeping a high standard of quality.
They are my employees.I pay __ minimum and i pay their workmans comp.
they provide their own tools and transportation.
I work on the job all day long for free.
My men love me. Never stealing materials,tools or disgruntled over a difficult section. No fighting, cursing, loud radios.
Just one hundred percent realiability and all smiles.
In 6 years, not one man has asked for a single dollar before pay day.
Whenever i hire a native, its pure hell.
Bad attitude, work sucks beyond all hell.
2 hour lunches, Phone glued to ear.
Comes to work late. Leaves home way before dark.
Very disgruntled if he has to work till dark
wife/girlfriend has an emergency .almost every day
Needs a ride to his drug dealer
No driver license, wanted for child support
on the run half the time.
Oh and needs pay after the first day of work and has no lunch money ever.
Whens beer thirty?
Yeah, we raise em up right around here...
Im exagerating a lil, but barely. lol
Before all the regulations and inspections(2007)
shortly after the democrats won control of the house and senate(2006)
Labor was around 40 and material was Half the price.
7 years ago I was your foreman. I got a $100 per sq. off & on, cash. The GC took care of everything, I took care of getting the roof off & on & paying my guys. I supplied the equipment & labor, the GC supplied a dump truck or container. Sometimes I made out, sometimes I didnt. He paid the same whether it was a go over or if it was a 3 layer pig rip.
My foreman is responsible for the progress of the roof job. I regularly inspect the jobsite if I see the guys not doing there jobs I have a firm talk with the foreman inturn he has a talk to the crew. Bad performance and I replace guys that way they know I dont play around. good performance I'll give my foreman a bonus for that job or treat the guys to lunch to let them know that I appreciate there hard work. I also make sure they are reminded that everone is replaceable. A crew should work at a steedy and constant pace all day with you being there or not.
Regardless of whether you find my advice humorous or not, it would actually solve every single problem you listed. A roofing crew is like a wolf pack, if you want control you need to be the biggest baddest wolf, period. Changing the way your guys get paid to try and solve issues caused by lax management is just going to piss them off and make them resentful. You are taking the lazy way out here imo and in the long run it won't better your situation because your issue isn't pay, it's lack of respect.
You couldnt be further off of the problem. Quite the opposite. Please don't respond to this thread, I was already given very good advise from the other posters. Thank you.
Translation: You hit the nail right on the head. It's making me angry. I was already told what I wanted to hear from the other posters. Thank You.
Ok, your right.
Tar i also disagree with your advice to an extent. For a mom & pop operation your advice works perfectly. But for some of us bigger guys who have multiple crews & do hundreds of roofs per year. If i'm on the job....who's running the company?
:shock: ...what planet ARE you from???? no wonder you dont have a business..you would be bankrupt...
There is a major company who seems to be doing very well, no name. They provide the foreman the dollar amount for labor. He gets it done with less, it is his bonus. It is always done with less as it is his motivation. He brings in his own team, if he can, and as a team with a fair foreman, they all win if they can pull it in under and split this bonus. They seem to be doing very, very well and are starting to take our work and we do major stuff.
MRROOFER.......It is unfortunate that this has happen to you, It is like raising your children! (no matter how you raise them, it is a crapshoot on how they will turn out!). Same goes with trying to hire the right crew, what looks to be great...is not always what it seems.
I have a motto in roofing and it goes like this***..."When my only solutions are negative...I pick the best of the worse!"***
1. You could fire all the employees...and start anew
2. Continue business as usual, hire a QC manger (if you company is big enough and revenues allows for it)
3. Change all pay to piece rate (Crews may get fed up and hold you hostage...IE...threaten to quit forcing you to hire new crews)
With all of these issues facing you...there is a compromise and can work to your advantage...to a point
A. Pay your guys hourly for the tear-off phase only: This is the best solution because every tear-off (steep/extra layers/woodwork/change orders) is different.
*** (When you have change orders during the tear-off process.....don't pay piece or add additional hours to their pay...pay them as part of the tear-off.)***
B. After the tear-off phase is complete, then switch them to piece work and pay them the rate for your market.
**How does this benefit you??? **
-Guys want to make as much money for as little time as possible...but if you are paying them hourly for the whole day...they will bring their milk and cookies to work with them
-Yes...you will get some milking of the clock (but that is a part of a negetive that has been reduced)
-The install (once every thing is prepped) will take only a couple of hours to complete...they go home early with good pay and and you completed job.
I have conducted monetary evaluations and comparisons of piece vs hourly work on many projects.....the one thing that sticks out...is that the system described above saves you small amount of labor dollars on eash job....over 100 projects...that small amount accumulates to save you alot.
I really love all these good suggestions. I cant wait to have them implemented in our company. By the way, we are a fairly large company and employ about 70 employees year round. It's ALOT to manage. My wife and 5 other women run the office. I continue to do my share of the estimates and visit the job sites daily. Thanks again guys!
My employer isn't bankrupt.
you think those are his prices?.. :lol:
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