Roofing Business Talk
When you guys hire subcontractors, or if you work as a sub contractor - you charge for everything you do correct?
By this I mean, installing gutter apron, drip edge, ridge cap, starter shingles , etc.
I hear of some guys who don't and I am actually sort of surprised. Is it normal to charge ONLY by the square?
around here, the per square price includes pipe flashings, any vents, and step flashing. building a cricket, or massive amounts of custom flashing is extra.
some crews include nails, button caps, and caulk with the "per square" price too.
I have seen a number of variations but never where the labor charge was by the square regardless of the roof geometry. In most cases, we pay for steep, double steep, high, 2nd layer, ridge vent, chimney flash, skylights, etc.. In other words, in general, if we get paid a line item in the insurance scope, we pay the crew for doing it.
This seems to make sense to me. First, seems fair. Second, if the crew were only paid by the square, I'd have concerns about them taking shortcuts on items we didn't pay for. Unfortunately, the unpaid items that could be shorted are the areas where it may be most likely that leaks could occur down the road. Given we offer a 5 Year Workmanship Warranty, it would seem insane to try to save money now to only end up paying out much greater sums down the road.
Nearly all of my subcontract experience is lump sum. It really is about the only way I like to do anything. I look at the job and give them a labor price. Often I will provide materials too. I find it makes it easier on both parties.
Thats the way subcontractors needs to be paid....ofcourse me when am doing a job of mine own sale or subcontract will always make sure i do what its needed to prevent any water problems in the future, am one of those guys that hates going back and doing a repair........back to the extra pay for flashing, replacement of wood, this are extras that take time and if roofers dont get paid for it they will only use a pc. of metal and go over the broken boards......DAD i need to work for you..
I would charge by the sq, and as Agape said, a lot of stuff would be included in the "square". Installing underlay, flashings around protrusions, a minimal amount of step/wall flash and normal caps.
Things I would charge extra for would be building anything, cutting any wood, skylights, ridge vent.
And it would be either I supply nothing at all, or everything I'll need to do the job.
Most of the subs in my area are from Mexico and charge a flat per square rate. They may get a little more for steep roofs though.
From what the insurance pays on average for labor to what they get on average for labor it's about 1/4-1/5.
We have our own employees, but do have a side sub staff. We keep them busy. We pay $75.00 per sq., $7.00 per lf chimney flashing, $15.00 per sheet wood decking, we buy all materials and disposal. On larger jobs, 60+ squares and walkable, we pay out $70.00 per sq. I have a sub doing a 67sq, 10/12 roof right now and am paying $110.00 per sq. I have been using this sub for 6 years and have never had a call back. And the main guy drives 1 of my trucks.
I need to work for you too....next year
The variations are locally specific. Around Huntsville AL it is labor only. No material, and I typically pay $40-$60/square to my crews. That does include picking up and delivering the shingles and hauling off the old shingle waste.
Reasons for hiring a sub include increasing production, less production management for the company, avoiding payroll tax burdens and cheating on insurance.
The contractor who is simply trying to maintain production and quality, seems to be willing to pay more to avoid cutting corners.
The pimps who practically dominate residential roofing are simply trying to avoid payroll/ comp burdens.... (hell any real business expense that might cause them to actually price a job and sell it) and will seemingly pay much less.
In the end quality on all sides pay ..... customer, contractor and sub contractor
Yeah I would never subcontract work for 60 a square. That would cost me money by the end of it.
I am fortunate that I am sub-contracting some work for a guy who has a very good reputation. 13 years, zero recorded complaints, no late payments to suppliers or anything so he pays fairly well when all is said and done because he cares about the work being done. He also inspects each roof of his that gets done a week and does a final walk through with each homeowner. Its about 7-10 houses a week.
Common down. I need you and your crew!