Roofing Business Talk
I am a newbe to this forum, so bare with me. I have been doing insurance work for about a year. I have learned alot but was hoping you guys could give me some advice on issues I am dealing with recently. I have always used Xactimate to do my estates and make very good money. Lately though, I have been dealing with alot of lowball adjuster estimates. I have tried reasoning with thee guys but they refuse to budge. One was a simsol estimate that looked like it had not updated it's pricing since 05. Also I just had an adjuster say they WOULD approve total replacement of a roof for hail damage. He said he could go off the Xactimate i had done if I would send it to him. After i did, this is whats going on. There are 3 trades and he won't pay O/P. He is saying he won't pay for the damage sections of gutter so this takes out a trade so I am figuring he is using this to get out of paying the O/P. But it is legitimately damaged from the hail. He is also saying he won't pay for flashing where the porch roof meets main house wall or for an electrician to disconnect electric mast wires to replace a pipe flashing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Never in 100 or so jobs have I had an adjuster say he wasn't gonna pay for flashing, let alone this small of an amount.
Not unusual. Just tell the client their adjuster decided not to honor their Ins. claim. That gets results.
You can look at the Adjuster's estimate and tell when the price list was dated. On the heading page, you should see "Price List" which will be followed by some letters and numbers. The last 5 or 6 will be the month and year. For example, April 2011 will be APR11. Failing to use an updated price list is a blatant act of bad faith claim practice and you should call him on it. I struggle to imagine they wouldn't comply with updating the price list. The first 5 or 6 letters should list where it is from and should match your own, assuming you're downloading the correct price list. It would show the state and the market area.
As far as the gutter with damage they denied, was this obvious hail damage? Do you have pictures to support your claim that it should be replaced? Typically, hail damage to gutter gets approved very readily. Now if the fascia is rotted and it is falling down because of that, different story. Flashing seems to generally be difficult to get approved as it generally isn't damaged by the hail or wind. It is often simply not put in or installed incorrectly. If there is an interior leak from flashing, we can generally get it approved as I simply tell the Adjuster if he isn't paying to repair it, I'm not fixing it for free (even though we ultimately would) and therefore he'll be paying to repair the interior again.
They make a split boot for electrical masts, so it doesn't necessarily need to be detached. I put in the line item to detach and reset it, some will pay it, some will not. If they refuse to pay it, I simply point out to the Adjuster that it was on my estimate and if one of our roofers are injured from it, he needs to understand he just opened up his company to a multi-million dollar law suit by refusing to cover this line item. That typically gets the desired reaction.
Call me kooky call me wacky but I think that we will see alot more of this "Lowball Bullsh**.,
Why? Let me enlighten you,,,Call me a conspiracy fiend BUT,,,if anyone thinks the insurance board don't monitor these sites I feel you are mistaken,,,,What has been a major topic around these forums? Yes some may say oh they have better things to do,,,,,but do they?
Alot of comments and statements have been made pertaining to dealing with lowballers,accepting change and the inFAMOUS words a new age of roofing.Yeah it sounds far fetch, INBREAD FRED is charging $200 per square for Archs and I am going to have to adjust to stay competitive.Those types of comments and statements alone threaten our livelyhood.(IMHPO)
I am a reasonable person but for shi*s and grins think of it for a second.Its the most logical way for insurance companies to force lower prices and make contractors eat sh** and deal with it..
Roofing is mentally,physically and financially demanding.If property is damaged,,,then its damaged,,,,WTF?,,,legitimate claims SHOULD be paid for,,,the insured pays premiums for insurance coverage and THATS what THEY deserve.Paranoid or not I am NO longer going to complain about OTHER people charging nut cut rates then airing my findings on the web.If I was a part of the insurance corporate institute THIS site among st others is where I would find my information.
Think about it,,,,,I would use it for my strategy,,,,,,but maybe I am the one delusional,,,,maybe but kiss my a** I am getting what I want per ft,and per sq,,,,,,Geeezzzz,,,To many contractors are just accepting what the insurers are giving,,,,talk about intimidation,,,,they bleed blue too.
To the feathers I ruffled I am oh so sorry.I just feel that the insurance companies are feeling the pinch,rightfully so,,,,,that is what they are in business for,,,,120 tornados in the past week and over 350 hailstorms exceeding the 1"-1/2" requirement for damage.
We shouldn't be discussing pricing here.
There is no point to it anyway, rates vary widely in a given area much less different regions of the country.
Someone in Minnesota could be reading this and they read that it only costs $200/sq for a new roof in Texas, so they expect the same thing in Minnesota.
The cost of material doesn't vary by that much from one part of the country to another.
The cost of labor in the north is higher than in the south & southwest and we need additional materials that aren't required in warmer regions, these 2 things mean that a roof in the north is going to cost 2x as much as in the warmer regions.
I suspect that when pricing is discussed here it creates unrealistic expectations for some homeowners.
So when these home owners in the north get estimates in the range of $300+/sq, they feel that it is too high based upon what they have read on the internet.
They are looking for and expecting bids in the range of $200-$220/sq.
If they waste enough roofers time they will eventually get a lowball bid which they feel is right.
This isn't good for the homeowner or the roofers.
The roofers starve to death and the homeowner gets a substandard roof.
If all I could get is around $200/sq to do a whole roof, well I would quit, it's not worth it.
Your right Axiom,,,,My fault,,I pulled part of my post,,,Was not thinking,,,
No offense intended, but..., considering Roofmaster417's statement above as well as my own suspicious nature, not clear by your profile (no location, no occupation, no website) that you are actually a contractor rather than an adjuster or P&C ins co EE. 100 insurance jobs in your first year? If you are indeed a contractor, welcome to the "club"! If not, so be it - just be up front.
Assuming you are indeed a contractor and do need help, PM me and I'll give you my fax number so you can send me the complete loss report on the claim you are asking questions about. After redacting the insured's name and other personal info, include a description of the claim including adjuster objections and photos if you have them. I will then prepare a 3RS MAXtimate estimate and rebuttals against the adjusters denials and send both back to you.
I'll take two more from around the country if anyone wants to send them - pm me as well.