Hello, just hoping to get some good advice. I have some ice dam formation on my back roof (east side). The house is less than ten years old, has a vent ridge on the roof, continuous soffits (for some reason our soffits are several inches narrower than some of our neighbors - ours are about 2 or 3 inches wide), blown insulation, and continuous baffles from the soffits to the vent ridge in the attic. I've read up online, called up a couple of roofing people, and had a couple come over for estimates. My problem is that I feel like I'm getting a lot of conflicting advice from everyone, particularly about what ought to be done.

Water/ice proof flashing under the shingles has recently become code in my neighborhood, and I think it's likely that it was added when our house was built. I've only had water damage once before, last winter (particularly bad winter for us with freeze/thaw/freeze), when a single trickle of water ran down the back wall of our livingroom behind the paint, pouching the paint out. It happened again in the exact same location this year, which has me wondering if there might be a loose shingle above, and I'll likely have that checked out.

More importantly though, the ice from the ice dam drips down onto our deck, piles up, and makes it really hard to open the back door. My main objective is to prevent this water from dripping down over the gutters and freezing on the deck.

I've had people suggest:

1) starting in the attic, adding insulation. My understanding though is that if your insulation meets code, adding more insulation after a point has little benefit. I do, however have one of those cut-out holes in the ceiling for access to the attic and I'm not sure if I still have the piece of insulation that lays on the other side of that ceiling cutout. So I intend to check if that's still there and, while I'm up there, check underneath the baffles to make sure that insulation hasn't gotten pushed underneath them (ie. in the corner between the roof and the adjacent wall).

2) installing wider soffit. It seems as though some of our neighbors with the wider soffit don't have the ice problem, but maybe that's just a coincidence?

3) heating cables. this seems to be the most controversial of all.

my questions are:

1) could a missing piece of insulation over the access panel to the attic account for an ice dam along the length of the back gutter? And, do those baffles go all the way down to the soffits, or is there room in between the baffles and the soffits where blown insulation could get pushed into the corner? I know I'll find this all out soon enough firsthand but, I broke my hand last week, so it'll be a month before I can get up there.

2) Can wider soffits increase the circulation of cold air through the baffles? I've heard people say both yes and no.

3) Are heating cables effective, considering that my biggest concern is preventing the ice from dripping over the gutters. I've heard some say that they work great. Others say that they are ineffective, are dangerous (thinly insulated cables which are a fire-hazard), are destructive to the shingles, and eat up a lot of electricity. Anyone have any advice one way or the other? Is the extra electricity really that expensive? Are they really a fire hazard? Do they really work? When I look up at the ice flowing over the gutters, I can't help thinking that, if we put wires no where else but in the gutter and kept the gutter from freezing, any melting water would escape down the downspouts and away from the deck. Right now, it certainly seems to be hitting the cold gutters, freezing, and filling them with ice.

4) and finally, with this design of roof, pitch, climate (Cleveland, Ohio) ... when considering roof modifications (inspecting insulation, wider soffits) versus heating cables: can I expect to ever totally prevent ice dams with roof modifications, or would it be more reasonable/easier/less expensive to just deal with whatever runoff occurs with heating cables?

Apprecate any help you can offer.



btw, this is a couple of days into a thaw, so much of the snow has already melted. is it possible that some of the roof heating is coming from the two vents on the top of the roof? it seems as though there is a circle of melted snow around at least the left vent...

When your roof is covered in snow, heat loss forms the ice on your roof. A larger soffit could increase the cold air in your attic at the bottom. But it won't help your ventilation much as the vent gap at the ridge is only so big. You can't have more going in then out if you know what I mean.

Adding insulation could help the heat loss, but we would need some pictures as to what is going on.

Before this year I was against heat cables (I don't care for how they look). But when the water is in a liquid state behind that Ice dam it will freely flow to the gutter. If you had an endless supply of money there is alot you can do to your home to help prevent ice dams. But the heat cables deal with the ice dam, and are pretty cost effective. They also are not any more of a fire hazard then anything else with a plug.

Please check your message box.

i would up an aluminum ice belt across the length of that rear. you seen those before? from your bottom edge up to about 3 feet is a pan of aluminum, all across the bottom.
then i'd run the heat cable through the gutter and downspout. either start at the bottom of the downspout and run up it (little tricky but it can be done) and then across the length of gutter and then make a u-turn and run it back to the other side and end there. use the spacers so it lays in the gutter w/out touching itself. or start it in the gutter by the downspout hole and run it to the other end, u-turn it back to downspout hole (using spacers) and then drop it down the downspout.
where you start it depends on where the power source is now or where it will be easier to install one. sometimes there is an electric outlet up under an eave. sometimes you can tap into flood lights. or maybe you'll have to put one up there yourself (ie. hire an electrician) and maybe there's one on the side of the house down near the ground close enough to the downspout. (on the deck?)
now i looked hard enough at the photo to try and see if you had a downspout on both sides of the gutter but it looks like just one. if it is two, lemme know and i'll explain how to route the cable.
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i shoulda reread it before submitting it. it should start with: i would put up an aluminum...
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Why only on the east side? You may have some insulation issues. Since it is blown it is possible you have less on the east. Hard to estimate the depth during installation with out a means for measuring. Sometimes a chalk line is snapped along truss webbing as a reference. But often it's a guesstimate.
You could also have the insulation blown back along the eave from strong winds coming through the soffit vents. I have seen this a few times and it looks like a roof leak inside due to condensation on the drywall exposed in the attic. I'd double check the insulation first and also the attic hatch could be a big one. I recall a house where from the outside you could pinpoint the hatch location by the snowmelt above it on the roof.
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Being from the south we don't see this. It would seem to me though that it is a heat problem. You might could close off all your attic vents and install a power vent. These come in solor power to.
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Thank you very much for all of the advice!

selfemployedslave (great ID), I'm definately going to look up there and see what needs to be improved/replaced.

what you really couldn't see from the picture is how narrow our overhang is. from what I understand now, that narrow overhang and steep pitch roof just naturally leads to less insulation in the corners near the gutter, which means that cables really are the only option, outside of an extensive redesign.

i think that's probably the way we're going to go. Again, very much appreciate everyone's input!

- scott

All good advice. I'd start checking insulation/ventilation. If you have Cobra Ridge vent get rid of it, it does nothing. Switch to an open baffle ridge vent.
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If you use heater cable it will only push the ice higher. Ok if you are in a snow belt area 15 and 3/4 inches must be there check ownes corning if you dont believe me.

Did you just have windows replaced?

Baffles? Is the roof properly ventilated? if your not sure send me the length and width of the home and i will figure it out and tell you what you need to be properly ventilated to ensure manufacturer warranty and fix you problem maybe
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