» Removing Peel & Stck

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  Post subject: Removing Peel & Stck
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:34 pm 
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I'm told that Florida building code (except for Dade County) requires that peel & stick be placed directly on the plywood deck. How do you remove that in the future?

In Miami-Dade County they require a base sheet cap nailed directly on the deck, then the P&S.

Peel & Stick does not seal around nails, so, if the roof cover (shingle/tile) is lost in a hurricane, it would still leak, and not be able to be left exposed for long in the sun, so, I don't see the big advantage of P&S. Still have to put up a tarp after loosing the roof, but you can't remove the old peel and stick.

What am I missing?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:12 am 
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If you are using "Grace" P&S you might as well replace the deck compared to removing it in the future.

As for the product itself, if you lose a partial roof in a hurricane, you are going to get such a minimal leak around the nails, if any. "Grace" P&S has the ability to stay in open weather for a great deal of time. The biggest advantage is that in florida weather conditions, P&S stays on a roof and of coarse your shingles and felt do not. At least you have a better chance of saving yourself from major water damage using the product.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:43 pm 
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I am curious.
When you Florida guys say that you need a peel and stick underlayment, are you referring to peel and stick modified or the more common Ice & water shield.
The way it is spoken about I can't really tell...

Don't try to remove Grace/Vycor Ice & water shield, it is the real deal and doesn't come off.
All the other brands are similar knockoffs, some are better than others.
most are just plain junk, and don't really stick at all.

Real Ice & water shield does seal around the nails, that is it's intended purpose.
So will peel and stick modified, just not as well.
If your roof blows off in a hurricane the nails will more than likely remain in the deck, plugging said holes.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:12 pm 
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ditto the last sentence of Axioms reply.
i have torn off 3 peal n sticks.
none of them stuck to the deck.
it seams to dry out and come unstuck, after a few years.
after all the hurricanes florida dont know what it wants to do. this county says that, that county says this.
the truth is, were learning as we go.

if your wooried about your roof blowing off, then put on a 5v crimp metal with alot of screws.
wont matter what you put under it.
it stays on.

if ya need help im here in tampa bay.

gweedo.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:55 pm 
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The peel and stick type modifieds and underlayments that we put down will never come up unless they rip the decking up. You just go over it in the future.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:41 am 
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gweedo wrote:
..i have torn off 3 peal n sticks.
none of them stuck to the deck.it seams to dry out and come unstuck, after a few years.


Any brand that you couldn't just peel off? Your experience indicates to me that that the entire roofing system will fly if it's an unnailed low slope roof that relies of the adhesive to hold.

This report from NRCA confirms that there are great differences between brands of Peel & Stick, and that the sealing of nail holes is for the most part, a myth (except for two brands). http://www.professionalroofing.net/arti ... D=961#fig1


Quote:
gweedo wrote:
after all the hurricanes florida dont know what it wants to do. this county says that, that county says this.the truth is, were learning as we go.


You hit the nail right on the head. AND I wouldn't want to be the test rat for the newest "solution"

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gweedo wrote
if your wooried about your roof blowing off, then put on a 5v crimp metal with alot of screws.
wont matter what you put under it.
it stays on.


Next time I get a chance at a new roof I'll go that 5V crimp route, I've seen you recommend it before for Hurricanes. But, the roof I'm dealing with now is a low slope addition 1/2" on 12.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:16 pm 
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yeah you dont want to put 5v crimp on a low slope.

and i dont know what brands of peal in stick stick better than others, cause it just hasnt been on the market long enough.
but i did tear off several, for reasons other than leakage, that were no stuck so ill be nailing mine in the future
i like peal n stick just dont know why the ones i tour off were not stuck.


good luck.

gweedo


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Quote:
This report from NRCA confirms that there are great differences between brands of Peel & Stick, and that the sealing of nail holes is for the most part, a myth (except for two brands). http://www.professionalroofing.net/arti ... D=961#fig1


In the report, they don't state which brand is which. It would be EXTREMELY valuable information to know!
The only peel & stick I've found so far that has the ICBO ER-5433 rating is GAF Weatherwatch Leak Barrier
http://www.paragonroofs.com/system/leak_barrier.pdf, that may be the one that seals nails in the report.Anyone have an inside contact at NRCA?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:57 pm 
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My guesses for the Ice and water shields that actually do as advertised are, Grace/Vycor, Certainteed winterguard sand and HT.
Gaf Stormguard seems to be pretty good stuff but the weatherwatch is junk.

If applied to a clean dry deck Grace simply will not come off, and it does seal around the nails.
Grace sticks to everything...
Winter guard can be chiseled off, it is best to leave it alone...
The others just don't stick and are not true Ice & water shields, and they should be removed before installing the real thing.
A good way to test whether an Ice & water shield is any good, try to rip or tear it.
If it rips or tears by hand it is junk.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:30 am 
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Good point Axiom. A lot of so called I&W are junk and will not work compared to grace or wintergaurd.I agree

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:48 pm 
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i dont pay attention to the seal around the nail crap , cause the nail is going to rust away,
and its gonna leak.
the point , to me , is not to let the water get to the nail.

i dont like things that rip easily in my hand either.

gweedo


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  Post subject: Florida and Self-adhering Underlayments
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:12 pm 
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Florida now requires that any reroof job have either a self-adhering underlayment OR the roof deck seams taped with a self-adhering flashing that meets ASTM D 1970.

To be Florida Building Code approved, any self-adhering underlayment membrane MUST pass ASTM D 1970 which includes a nail sealability test. This means that the membrane will seal around all roofing nails and prevent the roof from leaking should the main roof material get blown off in a storm.

As mentioned previously, even though the membranes are FBC approved, they don't all perform to the same levels. Some are stickier than others.

The least expensive method of doing a reroof to meet the new code is to tape the deck seams and then put on a layer of felt. When you reroof, the felt is removed, the tape left in place, and a new layer of felt added.

If you use a full-roof self-adhered underlayment, then it is best left in place during a reroof. You can either roof directly over the old underlayment or put a layer of felt down then reroof.

Granule surface underlayments are the least expensive, but they often don't seal well at the edges and overlaps which can allow leakage unless the main roof is installed immediately or unless those overlaps are sealed.

A film surface underlayment will normally seal to itself at the overlaps and can easily be patched with another layer of self-adhered membrane. Make sure there is a textured surface on the film so that you have some traction when working on the roof. Although the film surface underlayments are slightly more expensive, they are much easier to work with and provide a more watertight roofing surface. You can even put an additional layer of self-adhered underlayment on top of a film surface underlayment when doing a reroof.

There are also fabric surface underlayments used for metal and tile roofs. These perform similarly to the film surface products but offer better traction for stacking tiles and for installing with adhesive foam systems. Again, with a reroof, you can either put the new roof over this underlayment or add a new layer of self-adhere underlayment or felt if you feel it is needed.

As a disclaimer, I work for MFM Building Products and we manufacturer an entire line of self-adhering roofing products.

Tod Windsor
www.mfmbp.com


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  Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Good info, Tod.

Gweedo, two things.

1. PEEL. Not peal. Sorry, just bugs me.

2. Provided it's properly attached to any walls (i.e. joints) & the mounting system won't be subject to standing water, I'd happily go with ANY metal roof on a 1/2 in 12 as you have exceptional low water resistance vs. a granulated surface.

Me, I would go with Tamko Metal & Tile, then put 1x4's horizontally into the roof deck & then the metal over this. As a matter of fact, this is how I'm doing my "in process" feed & tack shed as well as my Mom's chicken coop.

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  Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:03 am 
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well i would use a metal panel with a 2 or 3 inch
rib if im gonna put it on ant thing under a 2/12.
blowin rains can push water back up the roof and make it a couple inches deep on low slopes like that.
thats why you cant use 5vcrimp or 1.5 inch standing seam, cause the water will just build up and go thru the side laps.

and i like peal n steal.
thats my nickname for it.
the stuff works with no chance of burning anything.
so im down with it.

make no mistake though.
"they will never make another roofing product as
good as modified bitumen.'

gweedo


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:09 am 
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Tod mentioned taping seams, BAD IDEA. I saw other local roofers do this. During certain times of the day, or with a wet roof, the taped seams show thru the shingle. Go PEEL and stick all the way.

With hourly labor it's cheaper to skip tape, felt, simplex nails and instead just apply PEEL & stick.


James

Disclaimer: I do not sell PEEL & stick


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