» quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?

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  Post subject: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:33 pm 
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In the process of getting quotes for a re-roof with 30-year architectural shingles. Two companies have come out. Both said I have a 34-square roof. The 1st company just gave me a price, not details in the quote for $7,000. The 2nd company had a very fancy spreadsheet that calculated 40 squares of material to cover the 34-square roof and wants $10,500??

From online research, it looks like wastage is 5% on the high end. Does this include ridge caps? 40squares seems crazy to me...
thx


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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:14 pm 
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How were these two companies led to you?


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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:20 pm 
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5%-15% is average, depending on how cut up your roof is, if it is 34sq's , then to come to 40sq's he added 15% waste, but depends on your roof design.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:24 pm 
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The field area of your roof is probably 34 sq, with starters, cap, and waste it could easily be 40 sq actual.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:28 pm 
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It also depends on the roof. A cape cod or victorian will generate more waste than a ranch or a colonial. Ridge caps will generate less than a bundle of waste. Six squares of waste doesn't seem uncalled for. You should ask them how they arrived at this number, we could speculate all day.

I would suggest you get at least two more estimates and throw out the lowest and highest then pick the company you like best of the estimates remaining.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:54 pm 
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It sounds like what you have is a roof that has an area of 3,400 SF. 3,400 SF (or 34 SQ) will not provide an adequate amount of material to provide a roof replacement. Some people will consider starter and hip/ridge cap as separate items, some will bundle it into a waste factor. Yo u get 28 LF of hip/ridge cap per bundle of 3 tab shingles. If you use the specialty hip & ridge, the coverage per bundle depends on the brand/type. You get 78 LF of starter per bundle of 3 tab. If you measure the outside edges of your roof (eave and rake) and add it up, that is your perimeter where the starter is applied.

If starter and hip & ridge cap are calculated separately, then the waste factor utilized would be around 5% for a gable, 10% for a hip roof. You didn't state what you have. All that also depends on the geometry of your roof but those are reasonable approximations of what you might expect.

If the bids are saying they're for your complete roof replacement with no caveats for additional material required, I don't see why it matters. The price is the price. The one quoting $7,000 seems quite low whether they are calculating 34 or 40 squares.


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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Yeah, it totally depends on the shape of your roof. A straight gable roof with 2 sides can be done with a bundle or two of waste. A roof with dormers, hips and valleys can easily eat up a number of bundles.

In a shingle valley (no metal flashing) you hide about half of every shingle from one side under the other side.
Starters are hidden by, and ridge caps are put on top of the main roof.
These things don't count in the measured square footage of your roof.

So if your roof measures 34sq, it could easily take 40sq of material to do it.

If for any reason you are unsure, get some more quotes.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Wow, quick replies ;-)
My house is a Cape Cod and 3,400sq ft of roof area. I found the roofers on Kudzu. I was impressed w/ the salespeson that showed me the dimensions he measured and then entered into an electronic estimator spreadsheet. From the responses, 40 squares doesn't sound out-of-hand. I did request starter strips and ridge cap shingles.
I have another company coming out Monday. I don't have a good 'feeling' about the low bid, so he's gone.
Thanks again!


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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:59 pm 
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The company that gave you the estimate at $10,500 may be a little overpriced (depending on how steep it is) but his number of squares is correct. A standard practice of adding 10% waste for a gable roof and 15% for a hip roof is understandable. Most insurance companies figure it that way so most roofers do too. That guy who gave you the bid for $7,000 is way too low, I would recommend not using someone who A) doesn't know how to figure waste and B) doesn't know how to bid a roof with that price. If they are reputable contractors they should all be pretty close to the same measurements and the same price.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:31 pm 
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by a "re-roof" do you mean they are shingling over the existing shingles? or are they stripping the old roof off?

price per sq at quoted price
$10,500 % 40 = $262
$7,000 % 34 = $205

price per sq if the roof is only 34 sq
$10,500 % 34 = $308
$7,000 % 34 = $205

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Re-roof around here means tearing...

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:35 am 
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WarGoddess wrote:
throw out the lowest and highest then pick the company you like best of the estimates remaining.



im going to disagree with this one.


ive been the low bidder many times... usually because the other guys "smelled" the customer's money, and gave extremely high bids for no other reason.


and ive been the high bid lots of times too, and got the job. last fall, i got a lead from an insurance agent. I was the 4th roofer to look at the house. when i got there, he said to me "well, you are the 4th, and last bid, and im making a decision today". When I climbed out of his attic, he said "you are the only guy who wanted to get up on the roof, AND in my attic" and when i wrote my bid for a re-deck because he had 2 layers of shingles on top of wood shakes, and i handed him a $22,000 bid for his 35 sq roof, he looked at me funny, and asked why mine was more than 2x higher than everyone else. i asked him to see the other bids, and quickly pointed out that the other bids were for either tearing off 1 layer of asphalt or two. nobody else looked past the layer of felt that someone put over the shakes before putting shingles on.

he felt that because i was the only roofer that talked about re-flashing EVERYTHING, and was the only one to even notice the shakes, he hired me on the spot. i ended up doing the neighbors house too.


sorry for the long story, but my point is not to throw anyones bid out just because of a number. use the best roofer for the job. check references, look at previous jobs they have done, ask about insurance and warranties, etc etc. there are LOTS of factors to consider besides price. dont let a couple hundred (or even thousand) dollars be the reason why you make a huge investment on your most valuable possession.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:34 am 
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Did any or all of the contractors have the square count in numeral form? Like for instance,

34sq 1 layer tear off to be installed for $7000?

I have never been a fan of showing or including the square count within my proposal.But if asked I would speak the truth.But to add the square count as part of the proposal I don't do.

I would call the $10,500 contractor and see if he would entertain the idea of a rebid.It is possible that 1 section could have been added twice.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:40 am 
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I feel the $ 7000.00 bid is to low. When Owners ask me how many SQ I came up with I let them know. But I never tell them how I came up with my bid numbers. Every guy bids a little different but at the end we all must factor to cover our material,labor,profit. My proposals never have amounts for material like how many SQ, amount of starter, amount of felt ect. The owner should only care about how much its going to cost him and who he trust to put it on.

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  Post subject: Re: quoted 40 squares for a 34 square roof?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:05 pm 
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Smlslikmonyrfing wrote:
I feel the $ 7000.00 bid is to low. When Owners ask me how many SQ I came up with I let them know. But I never tell them how I came up with my bid numbers. Every guy bids a little different but at the end we all must factor to cover our material,labor,profit. My proposals never have amounts for material like how many SQ, amount of starter, amount of felt ect. The owner should only care about how much its going to cost him and who he trust to put it on.


So, nothing like buying a car that has a list of EVERYTHING the buyer gets with the car.
Would you buy a car if the sticker said "Car = $35,000"?
All you should care about is how much it's going to cost.
Right?

I understand disclosing nothing gives you the upper hand, and well, that's (roofing) business.

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