» Leak Barrier Placement Question - URGENT

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  Post subject: Leak Barrier Placement Question - URGENT
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:00 pm 
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As I am ready to work on my roof today I need fast help. Thanks in advance.

I have a low 3/12 pitch roof I am framing and roofing. I used GAF water barrier on the eaves, hip and rakes as well as around a dormer I framed out.

My question is simple: In the hip area I put down the Water Barrier first and then I cut the tar paper around it and only overlapped it about 6" on each angled side. Do I need, or is it bad to overlap tar paper completely over the hip to the other side?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:59 pm 
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Hi,

It only goes on first at the eaves. Everywhere else it goes on over the felt.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:14 pm 
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You've installed the ice & water shield along the eaves, rakes, and dormer, first from what I understand you saying. The ice & water shield was adhere directly to the wood roof deck, and then felt underlayment was installed. Is that correct? And fwiw, I would have installed ice & water shield in any valleys you may have if you aren't using metal.

Anyway, after you install the ice & water shield you should install the felt underlayment just as if there was no ice & water shield installed. The felt underlayment should be installed overtop of all the ice & water shield. The felt underlayment should be installed beneath the metal edge flashing along rakes, but overtop the metal edge flashing along eaves. You can wrap your felt underlayment over the hips no problem, in fact I recommend you do so.

Did I miss something, or did I misunderstand your question?

I hate to use photos from this particular roofing contractor as an example, but here is the only photo I have on my laptop hard drive (most photos are stored on my Maxtor at the office) of a hip.

Image

Here's a closer view:

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Hi,


You would run the felt up to the bottom of the valleys. Then the Storm Guard is installed so it runs on top of the felt. Then the rest of the valley is put down directly to the wood deck.

Think like water. If you put the felt over top of the Storm guard anywhere but the eaves and valleys it serves no purpose.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:31 pm 
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On a 3 in 12 the whole thing should be Ice shield ! anything under a 4 pitch or your taking a big risk.

RooferJim

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:56 pm 
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anything less than 4/12 should be all ice & water barrier.


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  Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:48 am 
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Thanks a lot gentlemen. I actually called GAF this morning and asked them. Their reply was to run the paper over the Ice & Water membrane. They also recommended I put an extra layer of tar paper (totalling 2 layers) over the entire roof. I overlapped the Ice and Water and tucked it under where it was to be. Thanks for your great advice. Much appreciated!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:49 am 
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anything unser 4/12 should be low-sloped. IMO

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:02 am 
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Lefty wrote:
You would run the felt up to the bottom of the valleys. Then the Storm Guard is installed so it runs on top of the felt. Then the rest of the valley is put down directly to the wood deck.

Think like water. If you put the felt over top of the Storm guard anywhere but the eaves and valleys it serves no purpose.


Out of curiosity, why would you install your ice & water shield overtop the felt underlayment? :?:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:04 am 
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My curiosity is this...exceept for at valley that run all the way to the roof edge, and eaves, why would anyone install the ice barrier type of underlayment under the felt?

In my waterlike thinking, when I see all the ice barrier and felt installed before a single shingle is laid, then if the ice barrier has to do its job, the resulting runoff will be where? Under the shingle roofing system.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:21 am 
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I'm not sure I understand what you are asking/saying Aaron?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:40 pm 
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Cerb,

For instance...

I drive past a lot of new construction sites regularly since they have been building about 200 houses a year in my town.

I see the roofs dried in. I see the ice barrier on the eaves, then the felt on top of that. This is good.

I also see felt up to dormers, skylights, chimneys, etc. , with ice barriers at these locations. Then I see the shingles being installed OVER the ice barriers. They never get tucked under the ice barrier at the lower courses.

By doing this, if the ice barrier is called upon to do its job, which is to protect against ice backup and infiltration, when said ice melts, the runoff will flow behind the shingles. This is the part that leaves me scratching my head and asking WTF?

Good roofing practice would dictate that the ice barrier be configured to drain out of the roofing system (on top of shingles) instead of behind it (under the shingles). Does this help to clarify? If not, let me know.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Hi,

Lets say you have wind driven rain. The water is driven under the shingles and step flashing at a side wall. The felt is on top of the
Storm Guard. The water continues under the felt. Flows on top of the Storm Guard, Then off the Storm Guard into the house.

Same thing anywhere else. Water flows into the house.

If the felt is put down first. Water flows off the Storm Guard onto either shingles or felt. Felt will keep most water out.

Once under the shingles if you can keep it out of the house. It has a chance to turn to a vapor and escape. It can also run all the way to the bottom of the roof.

This is not a done for a constant leaks. This is done for unusaul storms.

If you are using Storm Guard for everyday rains, you are looking for trouble.

I loose jobs because I will not cover a whole roof in Storm Guard. It can not breath. Thus destroying the deck.

I can shingle a 2/12 without Storm Guard and be leak free.


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