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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Oh yes I know the stuff. "roof in a can" . no thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:18 am 
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Actually warranty work calls for membrane to membrane unless your Centremark roofing who make there own details. If you go with a .060 reinforce membrance your than you need .060 reinforce membrance with seem tape on it or with rubber to rubber glue (EP 95/splice glue) w/ a in seam caulking around the hole.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:08 pm 
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RooferJ wrote:
Oh yes I know the stuff. "roof in a can" . no thanks.


Um.............

http://www.mulehide.com/product/eac.aspx?Graphic=CONT

hmmmmmmmmmm?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:18 pm 
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And I am not talking for warranty work. I am talking for patch work and to revitalize an older EPDM roof.
We have less cal backs using elastomeric cement on seams than using peel-and-stick tape, and its less expensive. Coating an entire roof is $$$$.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Buyer Beware ! as soon as the unskilled labor starts to use that roof in a can garbage they will null and void any warranty from the membrane manufacturer. I just have seen one recent case of this. You always use like products, Its really common sence.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:54 pm 
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with EDDM its almost never an issue with membrane, its usually seams and flashing. You can strip in seams that are thirty years old and get more life out of the roof. There are some rare cases of thermoplastic membrane roofs "like hypalon" that have had membrane issues and the sheet weathers done to the scrim, in these rare cases perhaps a coating could be a good "but short term" option.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:20 pm 
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RooferJ wrote:
Buyer Beware ! as soon as the unskilled labor starts to use that roof in a can garbage they will null and void any warranty from the membrane manufacturer. I just have seen one recent case of this. You always use like products, Its really common sence.


Bud, Ive been in buisiness for 15yrs now. Worked all over the country before that on roofs. If its a warranty job, yes, comply to their standards. On a 20-30yr old EPDM roof we find that elastomeric works wonders, and it is approved for rubber roofs. Calm down. Use what works for you, in YOUR situation.

If I had an outdated EPDM roof, I sure as hell would apply seam cement and coating before replacing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:19 am 
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OK, I have to note here that Raymond hasn't mentioned exactly what he is patching, be it a failed seam, a hole in the membrane or missing/failed flashings or perhaps something else.

That having been said, Elastomeric cement is a cheap alternative to re-roofing, but I would rather see EPDM used for repairs. Elastomeric is meant for use on metal, concrete, foam, brick, flat & barrel cement tile (ie spanish tiles, etc...), and aged aluminum coatings. There is also a primer that allows it to be used on asphault based rooves. I am not a fan of its use on epdm.

In the end it just as economical to apply an epdm patch as to purchase an entire can of goop to cover a 2'X2' area. Heck, the epdm patch will probably be cheaper. If you are stripping in seams cured cover strip is the way to go. Properly cleaned, a good repair can extend the life of the roof by years.

As for cleaning it, if it is really old and you cannot get all the crap off, use gasoline and scrub with a rag. Be sure to wear heavy chemical gloves. Make sure the area to be patched is clean as you can get it. You will need to fully adhere the patch so you will be better off with primer and splice adhesive since the entire patch needs to be stuck. Round your corners on the patch, trace the patch onto the roof with a crayon so you know where it goes, prime both the patch and the area to be patched, when that flashes off use the splice cement and when that flashes off adhere the patch then roll it in well. Finish the edges with lap sealant. The seam tape is hella expensive and not worth the purchase of an entire roll to do so small a patch.

I'm not saying the elastomeric won't stave off the death of the roof, only that for the money there is no reason not to do it right and the epdm will last longer.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:11 pm 
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WarGoddess wrote:
OK, I have to note here that Raymond hasn't mentioned exactly what he is patching, be it a failed seam, a hole in the membrane or missing/failed flashings or perhaps something else.

That having been said, Elastomeric cement is a cheap alternative to re-roofing, but I would rather see EPDM used for repairs. Elastomeric is meant for use on metal, concrete, foam, brick, flat & barrel cement tile (ie spanish tiles, etc...), and aged aluminum coatings. There is also a primer that allows it to be used on asphault based rooves. I am not a fan of its use on epdm.

In the end it just as economical to apply an epdm patch as to purchase an entire can of goop to cover a 2'X2' area. Heck, the epdm patch will probably be cheaper. If you are stripping in seams cured cover strip is the way to go. Properly cleaned, a good repair can extend the life of the roof by years.

As for cleaning it, if it is really old and you cannot get all the crap off, use gasoline and scrub with a rag. Be sure to wear heavy chemical gloves. Make sure the area to be patched is clean as you can get it. You will need to fully adhere the patch so you will be better off with primer and splice adhesive since the entire patch needs to be stuck. Round your corners on the patch, trace the patch onto the roof with a crayon so you know where it goes, prime both the patch and the area to be patched, when that flashes off use the splice cement and when that flashes off adhere the patch then roll it in well. Finish the edges with lap sealant. The seam tape is hella expensive and not worth the purchase of an entire roll to do so small a patch.

I'm not saying the elastomeric won't stave off the death of the roof, only that for the money there is no reason not to do it right and the epdm will last longer.


UES GASOLINE TO CLEAN AN EPDM ROOF??? THAT'S FUNNY. GASOLINE WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE MEMBRANE. EPDM CLEANSERS ARE AVAILABLE AND ALSO WARM WATER WITH SPIC-N-SPAN WORKS GREAT. NO GASOLINE.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:00 pm 
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PTROOFING wrote:
WarGoddess wrote:
OK, I have to note here that Raymond hasn't mentioned exactly what he is patching, be it a failed seam, a hole in the membrane or missing/failed flashings or perhaps something else.

That having been said, Elastomeric cement is a cheap alternative to re-roofing, but I would rather see EPDM used for repairs. Elastomeric is meant for use on metal, concrete, foam, brick, flat & barrel cement tile (ie spanish tiles, etc...), and aged aluminum coatings. There is also a primer that allows it to be used on asphault based rooves. I am not a fan of its use on epdm.

In the end it just as economical to apply an epdm patch as to purchase an entire can of goop to cover a 2'X2' area. Heck, the epdm patch will probably be cheaper. If you are stripping in seams cured cover strip is the way to go. Properly cleaned, a good repair can extend the life of the roof by years.

As for cleaning it, if it is really old and you cannot get all the crap off, use gasoline and scrub with a rag. Be sure to wear heavy chemical gloves. Make sure the area to be patched is clean as you can get it. You will need to fully adhere the patch so you will be better off with primer and splice adhesive since the entire patch needs to be stuck. Round your corners on the patch, trace the patch onto the roof with a crayon so you know where it goes, prime both the patch and the area to be patched, when that flashes off use the splice cement and when that flashes off adhere the patch then roll it in well. Finish the edges with lap sealant. The seam tape is hella expensive and not worth the purchase of an entire roll to do so small a patch.

I'm not saying the elastomeric won't stave off the death of the roof, only that for the money there is no reason not to do it right and the epdm will last longer.


UES GASOLINE TO CLEAN AN EPDM ROOF??? THAT'S FUNNY. GASOLINE WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE MEMBRANE. EPDM CLEANSERS ARE AVAILABLE AND ALSO WARM WATER WITH SPIC-N-SPAN WORKS GREAT. NO GASOLINE.


The lady is right and i've read enough from you to reach the conclusion that your an idiot.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:14 pm 
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we used to always use gas to clean the rubber years ago. The problem with some "Roofers" is that they are not really Roofers at all. It would be really nice if we had more standardized apprenticeship training in this country like they do over in Europe. there are a lot of idiots out there pretending to be roofers. It should be a crime. :o

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Make it easy on yourself.....use EPDM seam tape (6") and forget the glue. Clean the surface VERY well, use EPDm primer and stick the double sided tape to the existing and the patch. Lap sealant if you don't get the tape down correctly.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:01 pm 
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donl wrote:
Make it easy on yourself.....use EPDM seam tape (6") and forget the glue. Clean the surface VERY well, use EPDm primer and stick the double sided tape to the existing and the patch. Lap sealant if you don't get the tape down correctly.


I'm not looking for a fight, but the adhesive is cheaper and easier. The tape has to be applied with no more than 1/2" showing and no less than 1/8" showing. It mustn't be wrinkled either. It's easy for us because we've been applying it for decades, not so much for someone who doesn't do so on a regular basis.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:12 pm 
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PTROOFING wrote:
UES GASOLINE TO CLEAN AN EPDM ROOF??? THAT'S FUNNY. GASOLINE WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE MEMBRANE. EPDM CLEANSERS ARE AVAILABLE AND ALSO WARM WATER WITH SPIC-N-SPAN WORKS GREAT. NO GASOLINE.


Yes gasoline, we used to use it exclusively ack when I started out. We used to fill 5 gallon buckets with the stuff, drop in a rag and wash the seams with it. None of those rooves failed before their time, honest. Spic N Span and other cleaners are not nearly as effective at removing grime. I am not advocating its use for stains that can be removed by other means, only the worst, must stubborn stains. Take embedded dirt from a ballast roof for example. You can remove that with hours of scrubbing using Spic n Span or with only a few minutes of scrubbing with gasoline.

Carlisle used to make a blue solvent that worked almost as well, but they no longer carry that, more's the pity.

Gasoline will take forever to eat through an EPDM roof due to the fact that it evaporates. Petroleum products such as plastic cement, grease and oil, etc... are more viscous and stick to the roof without evaporating. They will eat an EPDM roof over time. In fact they will immediately cause the roof to bubble and warp when they make contact. Gasoline will not.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Not looking for a fight here either. I was trained by Simon Roofing,who has well over 100 years in the buis and we NEVER used Gasoline on an epdm roof, only to clean our hands. When repairing an epdm roof we always either used spi-n-span or an approved epdm cleanser, let dry, apply primer, the cured seam tape. Or uncured flashing around curbs , etc. They also make their own products, no middle man,
I was trained in various locations around the country as they have over 40 locations and I was trained correctly. Call Mule-Hide and ask if their products can be used on epdm roofs. I have not, nock-on-wood, had a call back since I can remeber. To each his own, I guess. Black EPDM roofs can only benefit from a cool white elastomeric coating.


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