» Allstate won't pay me O&P

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  Post subject: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:58 pm 
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It's a commercial office building with 4 tenants. The following trades are needed for repairs. Sheetrock repair, painter, awning replacement, siding/fascia, and roof. What do I do to get them to pay O&P?


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Get the insured involved.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:50 pm 
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What is their excuse this time?

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CIATPA (Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:32 pm)
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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:31 pm 
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My favorite BS from State Farm is it's not complicated enough. Huh? What? Homeowners ask me all of the time for advice on insurance companies. I tell them to nix Allstate, Nationwide, State Farm, SAFECO, Motorist, Liberty Mutual... maybe if enough contractors can truly warn homeowners which insurance companies sell BS policies things will change.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:51 am 
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LMB, they don't have an excuse this time. When talking to a desk adjuster I named off their previous excuses on prior claims but this didn't fall in any of those categories. The most recent excuse I've gotten is if all trades can be done from the outside and you don't have to coordinate with the insured to get work done on the interior.

The manager won't call me back because I'm sure he's trying to find an excuse not to pay.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
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So what is the best way to go about getting paid O&P on the work we have done. I have one company now wanting to pay it only on the interior work but not the roof. How is that justified? I'm trying to figure out how to fight it.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:48 pm 
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First off, they arent paying you the O&P, they are paying the insured.

That pretty much sets the tone of how to approach them.



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Authentic_Dad (Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:25 pm)
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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:11 pm 
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roofnrun wrote:
LMB, they don't have an excuse this time. When talking to a desk adjuster I named off their previous excuses on prior claims but this didn't fall in any of those categories. The most recent excuse I've gotten is if all trades can be done from the outside and you don't have to coordinate with the insured to get work done on the interior.

The manager won't call me back because I'm sure he's trying to find an excuse not to pay.


Your first post mentioned drywall and paint- surely that was inside... how did it turn out?


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:46 am 
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O&P is owed, the insured needs to get on the phone with claims mgr. The insurance company only has an obligation to discuss with them. Send me an email if you need coached through it.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 am 
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The only way I have ever been able to get it done is get the insured involved and have a conference call with the claims manager. I had the insured tell the claims manager why I was on the call while the insured discussed their concerns.


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 am 
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We do very little residential work so we don't run into Allstate that much. One of my commercial clients asked if I would meet his adjuster at his house last week on a re-inspection. I, of course, obliged. I showed up to find the adjuster, his manager, a steep team, and a customer service rep all waiting. The very first thing the adjuster said to me before I even shut the door to the truck was 'we don't negotiate pricing with Public Adjusters'. I just looked at him and said 'are you freaking kidding me?' 'Did you get beat up or bullied in high school by the varsity public adjuster's club?' Long story short, we walked the property......all 5 of us......and I pointed out the items that were simply left out or underscoped by the original adjuster. Having not been there, I don't know why they were left out and frankly didn't care. Unfortunately, the roofing contractor had originally over scoped the claim horribly so perhaps they were expecting a battle. By the end of the session I received an apology from the adjuster. What I will say is this, first, those of you who deal with residential adjusters on a daily basis deserve a medal. I have never experienced a more unprofessional, defiant attitude in my life. I know several PA's who work primarily residential claims and now I can see why they are constantly pulling their hair out. Amateurish is the first word that comes to mind. The amount of policy knowledge, general construction knowledge, and common sense combined in this group could be placed on the head of a thimble. Actually, the steep team was a local contractor who was well versed in his craft. Apparently, it doesn't pay well getting Allstate adjusters on roofs because before we left he asked me for a job. LOL. I swear, if I had to deal with this circus every day, I'd have enough content to write a screenplay for a Will Ferrel movie in two weeks.

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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:42 pm 
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My Favorite is the "well I can see that hail hit the shingle but it didn't penetrate the fiberglass mat" ... oh so would you like the decking to be broken as well !?!?!

Or the occasion of a lazy adjustor .. "That roof is too steep for me, here is my camera, just make sure the pictures look good"


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Ok I'm newer to roofing (9 months) and to this board, but I have run into a slew of adjusters who just seem hell-bent on preventing the scope from being done properly, not to mention manufacturer's reps stating things like "if even 1 hail hit that roof, the warranty is voided until it has a total system replacement, including underlayment."

I get that O&P is this sacred altar for roofers and the insurance seem to view it as their divine right to withhold it barring a tree falling into the middle of the house, but what is really going on here?

I had 12 claims straight up denied by Allstate and State Farm, and on another 5 we were severely underpaid with statements like, "the flashing and drip edge are not storm damaged" or "we don't talk to contractors at all. If you continue to harass us we will be forced to take legal action against the policy holder"

I'm not trying to join in as a complainer, I just want to know if there is a solid method for making sure I don't have to spend 90 days each time fighting supplements? I don't need to make $6k on a 40 square roof, but more than $500 would be nice from time to time.

I guess my questions are:
1) How do you explain the supplement process to homeowners to get their assistance without worrying they will try to keep the money themselves (happend twice)

2) what is the best way to interact with the insurance adjuster during the inspection?

3) what have you all had the most success with when it comes to supplementing for things like steep/high roof/drip/o&p?


Thanks in advance for any help!!
Jonathan


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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:37 pm 
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Just MHO, but here are the answers to your questions:

1. You start by setting expectations with the HO when you sign them up. Explain how they are owed for a complete roof replacement including perishable items such as flashings, vents, etc.. Explain the insurance companies often try to increase their profits by denying coverage of these items. Ask them if they want a roof replacement with their old beat up vents and pipe jack boots reinstalled? Ask them if they feel right about paying their premiums and then receiving 80% coverage after paying their deductible. We tell our Customers they will likely need to get involved once the claim has been approved.

2. I know many disagree with this approach but we go to every adjuster meeting with our estimate already prepared. The first and primary objective of the meeting is to show the Adjuster the damages, discuss what repairs are necessary AND GET THE CLAIM APPROVED. However, the work doesn't stop there. Once the Adjuster has finished their inspection and announced their verdict, we then provide them with our estimate and ask to review it item by item. Our more experienced guys go over each item of the repairs while the inspection is going on and when it isn't on the roof, we like to have the HO there. If we discuss replacing vents and other items on the roof during the inspection and the Adjuster says no, we bring these items up later in front of the HO and ask them if they are okay with reusing the old items. Yeah, this puts the Adjuster on the spot but that's his problem, he wouldn't be on the spot if he adjusted the claim properly.

3. Supplementing is a bit of an art form. Do a search here, I started two threads a year or so ago describing the supplementing process. I'm not going to attempt to repeat that in this post. In a nutshell, pictures, documentation, determination, diligence and tenacity along with getting the HO involved if you run into a complete road block.


TotalHomesJon wrote:
Ok I'm newer to roofing (9 months) and to this board, but I have run into a slew of adjusters who just seem hell-bent on preventing the scope from being done properly, not to mention manufacturer's reps stating things like "if even 1 hail hit that roof, the warranty is voided until it has a total system replacement, including underlayment."

I get that O&P is this sacred altar for roofers and the insurance seem to view it as their divine right to withhold it barring a tree falling into the middle of the house, but what is really going on here?

I had 12 claims straight up denied by Allstate and State Farm, and on another 5 we were severely underpaid with statements like, "the flashing and drip edge are not storm damaged" or "we don't talk to contractors at all. If you continue to harass us we will be forced to take legal action against the policy holder"

I'm not trying to join in as a complainer, I just want to know if there is a solid method for making sure I don't have to spend 90 days each time fighting supplements? I don't need to make $6k on a 40 square roof, but more than $500 would be nice from time to time.

I guess my questions are:
1) How do you explain the supplement process to homeowners to get their assistance without worrying they will try to keep the money themselves (happend twice)

2) what is the best way to interact with the insurance adjuster during the inspection?

3) what have you all had the most success with when it comes to supplementing for things like steep/high roof/drip/o&p?


Thanks in advance for any help!!
Jonathan



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  Post subject: Re: Allstate won't pay me O&P
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 am 
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We are developing a case whereby adjusters practice of leaving intrinsic financial loss values out of ACV calculations - financially defrauds ones insured.

Coupled with the case is mail fraud committed by presenting an initial ACV offer that is intentionally and financially synthetic.

We are intent on seeing phony and corrupt adjusters lose their license...and go to jail. We are intent on exposing the insurance fraud perpetuated everyday against loss claimants.

Allstate supporters are some of the best examples of deceptive and callous business con artists in the world, and their weakness is naively believing that they are too well connected to be held responsible for their damage to society.

How about that Mr. Wilson? Is Allstate ready for another visit from the FBI? Your company was warned about theft of premiums, and you just ignored the warnings.

Too bad. Allstate practices have damaged so many, many lives, and deserves the full extent of punishment the law, and the market, allows.

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