-Axiom- wrote:

travis1 wrote: 3- tab shingles are junk. What an ignorant statement...

I'm sorry, 3 tab shingles are gargbage. Only cheap ass homeowners put 3-tabs on and/or landlords/realtors

travis1 wrote:

-Axiom- wrote: travis1 wrote: 3- tab shingles are junk. What an ignorant statement... I'm sorry, 3 tab shingles are gargbage. Only cheap ass homeowners put 3-tabs on and/or landlords/realtors

Although cheaper, and although rarely used anymore, they are not junk shingles. I have them on my home (for now). My G-Pa would punch me in the throat if he were still alive and I said that to him.
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I know of some junk laminates.

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on XT 30's to outlast LandMarks. Not that LandMark fit into the junk category,.... they are just two cheapazz 3tab shingles glued together.


Been roofing long travis?

Been roofing long travis?[/quote]

16 years. Why do you ask?

travis1 wrote:

-Axiom- wrote: travis1 wrote: 3- tab shingles are junk. What an ignorant statement... I'm sorry, 3 tab shingles are gargbage. Only cheap ass homeowners put 3-tabs on and/or landlords/realtors

Prices vary from region to region but for me 3-tabs aren't exactly cheap.
XT-25's are only around $3/sq cheaper than Landmark 30's.
XT-30's cost more than Landmark 30's...

The XT line will last just as long and stand up to the same winds as the Landmarks.

We put on 1000's/sqs of OC classics during the boom, after over 15 years these roofs are still in pretty good shape, the one's I have seen recently anyway.

We have tore off many a 3-tab roof that was approaching or over 30 yrs old, and many of them weren't leaking.

There are some 3-tab shingles that totally fail in 8-12 yrs consistently.
I can say the same thing about some dimensional's.

Saying that "all 3-tabs are junk" is implying that it is the design of the shingle that makes it inferior.
Well this simply is not true.
The 3-tab design has a long proven track record as a very good, cost effective design for it's intended purpose.

The same companies that put out all the bad 3-tab shingles in years past are doing the same thing now except they are doing it with the dimensionals.
You may be confusing quality with design.
Cheap shingles are cheap shingles, regardless of design.

You are correct that it is usually the price shoppers and money conscious customers that request 3-tab shingles.
Pretty much all the 3-tabs I do is on additions, a whole house is pretty rare.
If a customer requests a 3-tab they get an XT, this is the only 3-tab I offer for an entire job.
XT's are far and away the best 3-tab on the market, IMO.
XT's are as good as most dimensionals.
XT-30's carry a higher wind rating than Landmark 30's.


So ya dude, to say "all 3-tabs are junk" is a pretty freaking ignorant statement.
And you wonder why you were asked how long you have been roofing..
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Lol
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travis1 wrote:

I'm sorry, 3 tab shingles are gargbage. Only cheap ass homeowners put 3-tabs on and/or landlords/realtors

I happen to prefer the look of 3 tab shingles, and only plan to live in my present home for a couple of more years. Why does that make me a "cheap ass homeowner"?

Harry

I'm embarrassed at how a legit thread by a homeowner, looking for professional opinions, and detoured so far off course. We have BS threads here that got sound advice and didn't deviate downhill like this.

If the thread had stayed on topic, HarryB could have just printed it out and used it in court, verbatim.
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tinner666 wrote:

I'm embarrassed at how a legit thread by a homeowner, looking for professional opinions, and detoured so far off course. We have BS threads here that got sound advice and didn't deviate downhill like this. If the thread had stayed on topic, HarryB could have just printed it out and used it in court, verbatim.

As an old usenet man, I should not have been surprised there are also trolls here.

Regardless, I am deeply indebted to the legitimate posters who helped me understand that I am not a troublemaker just because I expected the contractor to install the roof according to the manufacturer's instructions.

The building inspector, alleged manufacturing representative, and contractor all tried to pull the wool over my eyes. That was a formidable array of experienced people lined up against a relatively ignorant home owner, but you guys gave me the confidence to continue to insist on a quality installation. And you guys' argument was finally backed up by the legitimate manufacturing representative.

Harry

You will have to inform us of how this goes. Your "roofer" will most likely only find people to help his side of the situation but in the end, the manufacturer has the final say in if it was installed to their warranty standards or not.

The one thing I find that NUMEROUS people do not understand is that the warranty the shingles have from the manufacturer do not matter when not installed correctly. I sometimes get calls asking to look at a roof and the homeowner saying the warranty is still intact only for me to inform them that it is not installed to their standards.

Good Luck,

Also Axiom, could not have said it better although IMO 3-tabs are going to be a thing of the past within the next 10-15 years, At least in my area. I havent installed a 3-tab roof since the beginning of 07 and that was on an addition.
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I would love to put archs on every house.
These are the customers that i will get referrals and repeat customers from since the house looks so good.
But regardless, i insist on putting them only on the houses that have the appropriate pitch.
I disagree with almost ALL roofers on what that particular pitch is.

Anyone who says that 3-tabs are only for cheapskates, DO NOT have enough roofing experience to be making decisions about roofing.

roof-lover wrote:

Anyone who says that 3-tabs are only for cheapskates, DO NOT have enough roofing experience to be making decisions about roofing.

Whatever you say bud. I don't care what any of you say, in my opinion 3-tab shingle design is crap.

Yes they can work, but are very inferior to the solid 36-39" laminated shingles. They do not have tar strips that run vertically between every tab, therefore prone to wind driven rains.

Junk in my opinion. And yes I've personally installed thousands of squares of the cheap bastards on the crappy production homes that have seem to have collapsed everywhere in the nation.


Much more prone to blow offs, wind driven rains.

3tab shingles are positively inferior to archs on certain pitches.

Architect shingles are positively inferior to 3tabs on certain pitches.

BAMBAMM5144 wrote:

You will have to inform us of how this goes. Your "roofer" will most likely only find people to help his side of the situation but in the end, the manufacturer has the final say in if it was installed to their warranty standards or not.

The contractor called me this morning and offered to warranty my roof for 25 years against blow-off and whatever the manufacturer wouldn't cover. He said either my attorney or his could draw up the contract. I told him my main reservation was being assured his company would be around for the next 25 years.

I called the attorney who said he had never heard of anything like that and didn't think there would be a way to draw up a contract with this contractor that would be in my best interest.

I called the contractor back and told him what the attorney had said. He then wanted to know if his crew came back and put nails in all the right places, would that satisfy me? I asked him if it would satisfy the manufacturer so that their warranty would cover my roof. He couldn't answer that. Finally he asked me if I was going to pay for the roof he had installed. I told him, "No".

He then accused me of plotting against him from the beginning and began to make negative references to my motives. When he called me a crook I hung up the phone.

Quote:

The one thing I find that NUMEROUS people do not understand is that the warranty the shingles have from the manufacturer do not matter when not installed correctly. I sometimes get calls asking to look at a roof and the homeowner saying the warranty is still intact only for me to inform them that it is not installed to their standards [snip]

The contractor told me the reason he nails high is because the nails rust if he nails below the glue strip as the manufacturer specifies. (Are some roofing nails more resistant to rust than others? - he hand nailed the roof.) And the reason he only puts 3 nails in some of the shingles? He's afraid of damaging the tab if he lifts it up to put in the fourth nail.

All of these things may be true - I don't know because I'm just an ignorant home owner. What I do know is, if prior to beginning the work he would have told me that he would not follow the manufacturer's installation instructions, and why, I would have had the opportunity to research his method and make a decision if that was acceptable or not. However, it never occurred to me he wouldn't follow the written instructions.

Harry

If he has problem w/ nails rusting he should use Hot Dipped instead Electro Galvanized nails. After all he is a hand nailer, he should know this

I have heard that some mfgers/ roofers/ maybe even some organizations frown on lifting the shingles and that it could cause cracking. I say BS. If this is a problem Dear Manufacturer, you have a crap product.

now if someone over lifts a shingle and abuses it, then I would agree.

This guy needs to suck it up. # nails or shingles nailed high? Go flip burgers
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