Yes Harry. You need to see that guy tomorrow. He's not going to sign off on it.

We had a new SlateLine losing shingles once. Extremely high wind area. We pulled shingles and they sent them to the factory. THe techs there measured the placements of the nails to within 1/64" Out of 50 shingles, maybe 3 nails were outside 'that' margin of error. We had to stand our ground, but GAF ended up paying the the T.O. and replacement.

Take that for what it's worth. In the event of failure, material goes to the factory for inspection, if not testing.
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This is good reading Harry.

Very interesting. Sounds like 3 BS'ers to me.

Nothing to talk about w/ the inspector beyond Ice & Water Shield & Ridge Vent, is there?

At least w/ most homeowners you can throw price in there, have 3 items of discussion and be a roofing contractor.

Go Get 'em Harry

HarryB wrote:

RooferR wrote: The building inspector is just doing his job the way they always have and will. I'm sure there is a super inspector out there who does it right, but I haven't seen one yet. ---------------------------- Who protects the homeowner if the building inspector doesn't? Harry

You could always hire a profession roofing consultant.
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Downunder Roofing wrote:

capitalism! How ever, what ever you do DONT let obama socialise your medicine! trust me little of the topic

Yes, it is obviously better if most people in the U.S. don't have medical coverage!
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Stormer wrote:

Downunder Roofing wrote: capitalism! How ever, what ever you do DONT let obama socialise your medicine! trust me little of the topic Socialized medicine? In a roofers forum? I can’t just set back and let this one go. Do you mean like the Medicare program your grandparents use? Sure have it your way let’s stop that program and let millions more Americans go without health care. But let’s not stop there let’s stop all those Socialized programs like Police departments, Fire departments , All road systems and Libraries just to name a few. Stop watching Fox and think for yourself, oh and yes please use spell check when you’re talking about that scary black man. Now back to the roofing forum

Ah, a free-thinker.

I'm like you. I always laugh when I see a bumper sticker bashing socialism, because that vehicle is usually on society's roads and not driving across fields and such. Now, true and total socialism like Faux would have you believe Obama supports is a bad thing, but those are scare-tactics used by those who want to regain power and to continue siphoning money off the lower and middle classes.

Hey, if nothing else, I prefer paying $2.30/gal of gas under Obama as opposed to the $4.00/gal under Cheney/Bush. Right there alone Obama has saved me over a thousand dollars this year!

Just remember, a society can be judged by how they treat their poor! As for the welfare cheaters and such, well they should be executed!
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HarryB wrote:

I asked, "Are you telling me that the company will state in writing that they will honor their 25 year warranty for my particular roof exactly the way it is right now including missing and misplaced nails?" The company "rep" said, "Yes." I replied, "If you provide me with that documentation I will be satisfied."

Well, let me ask you this. Will you still be satisfied if you get that letter by the manufacturer? Better yet. Well you feel better if your roof blows off and the manufacturer ships you enough shingles to replace the ones on your roof? Naturally, it will be up to you to put them on the roof. Also, who is going to pay for any subsequent damage from leaks, etc.?

Personally, I would be really sympathic toward the roofing contractor when you tell them "sorry, but you really need to properly install my shingle roof." And yes, that means tearing off the new and starting again if the original installation is as bad as you say. I still wouldn't mind seeing some photos though, to let you know what I really think.
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Cerberus wrote:

Downunder Roofing wrote: capitalism! How ever, what ever you do DONT let obama socialise your medicine! trust me little of the topic Yes, it is obviously better if most people in the U.S. don't have medical coverage!

LOL so 15% who aren't insured now are a majority?

Cerberus wrote:

HarryB wrote: I asked, "Are you telling me that the company will state in writing that they will honor their 25 year warranty for my particular roof exactly the way it is right now including missing and misplaced nails?" The company "rep" said, "Yes." I replied, "If you provide me with that documentation I will be satisfied." Well, let me ask you this. Will you still be satisfied if you get that letter by the manufacturer? Better yet. Well you feel better if your roof blows off and the manufacturer ships you enough shingles to replace the ones on your roof? Naturally, it will be up to you to put them on the roof. Also, who is going to pay for any subsequent damage from leaks, etc.? Personally, I would be really sympathic toward the roofing contractor when you tell them "sorry, but you really need to properly install my shingle roof." And yes, that means tearing off the new and starting again if the original installation is as bad as you say. I still wouldn't mind seeing some photos though, to let you know what I really think.

As I noted in the message to which you replied, when they made me this offer I already knew the manufacturer wouldn't certify the application method of my roof.

But, I admit you raised some questions that had not occurred to me. Maybe they would have if I thought the offer was a valid one, but I knew it was bogus and was astonished it was the building inspector who made the offer.

I'm an old usenet man and have never posted pictures into a forum like this. Apparently I need to upload the pictures somewhere online and then link to them. If I figure out how to do that I will post some pictures. Specifically, what do you want to see and what size works best for this forum?

Harry

The shingle manufacturer's field representative came out to my house today. He spent quite a bit of time demonstrating with some shingles how a properly nailed shingle system works. I think I now understand WHY the placement of the nails is so critical to the long term performance of the roof.

As we were talking, he suddenly said, "Listen". Just down the road from us, but slightly out of view, a crew was replacing a roof. He told me, "Listen for a sequence of 3 and then 4 pops of the nail gun". I listened and sure enough heard exactly what he described. He then said that they were racking the shingles, just like my contractor had done on my roof.

"Racking?" I asked. He explained racking and then, pointing to my roof, showed how he could tell my roof had been racked. He explained that is why I had found what I thought was a random pattern of some shingles with only 3 nails while others had 4. It's a common practice in this area, he said - there's a good chance the majority of homes in this area with 3 tab shingles have been racked, and many shingles will only have 3 nails.

He then climbed up on the ladder and spent all of 30 seconds looking at the shingles before coming down and saying, "I've seen all I need to see. Your roof was not installed according to the instructions and no claims for wind damage will be honored." Out of curiosity I asked him about the starter strip, which consisted of full shingles that had been turned around 180* and simply laid down with no glue strip for the tabs of the first course to adhere to. He said he wasn't surprised to see that and stated that also would void any wind damage warranty.

I then asked him if it would be possible to repair the roof to meet the manufacturer's warranty. He hew-hawed around for a bit, but finally said something about adding 4 more nails to each shingle in order to try to meet the specs would add that many more potential leak spots. And then each tab might have to be sealed with two small dabs of adhesive... He really didn't need to finish the thought - I got the message.

The bottom line? My roof was installed in a manner that is probably customary in this area. And my roof is not warrantied against wind damage and possibly other problems.

Although the news was bad, I really was impressed that the manufacturer's representative was willing to spend more than a hour educating a customer so that the customer would understand why they would deny certain warranty claims.

Where do I go from here? I suspect the only recourse is to have the roof replaced. Can this contractor do it correctly? Can any local contractor do it correctly? I simply don't know.

Harry

Well, you could do what I do. So to speak.
As a roofing contractor, I was getting lots more calls for shingles than I could handle. I starting watching and listening as I rode around. I'd find a crew at work and stop at the jobsite. I'd go up and introduce myself and get a looksee at the work.
After seeing about 30 different crews firsthand, during the install, I conceded I wouldn't find a suitable subcontractor, so I dropped 'production roofs' from my line-up.

Ride around. Stop and say you're looking for a crew. Ask to get a look. Use binoculars, or whatever it takes. You might find a roofer. I'm sure there is one out there somewhere.
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If racking is done correctly, you'd hear 3 nail gun pops, and then 5 nail gun pops

3- tab shingles are junk. I disagree with manufacture about racking, did it for 6 years on crappy production homes with no problems, looks fine.

I don't know of any roofer or company in the city of Indpls. that does not rack 3- tab shingles.

Don't pay the company until they re-nail the whole roof off,as long as the shingles are not sealed all the way.

"I then asked him if it would be possible to repair the roof to meet the manufacturer's warranty. He hew-hawed around for a bit, but finally said something about adding 4 more nails to each shingle in order to try to meet the specs would add that many more potential leak spots. And then each tab might have to be sealed with two small dabs of adhesive... He really didn't need to finish the thought - I got the message."

Like anything else, the initial application is crucial. No amount of bandaiding will ever rival a correct installation.
They didn't even know where to nail the shingles. Does anybody expect them to know where and how flashing is installed?

I'd use another 'roofer'.
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travis1 wrote:

3- tab shingles are junk.

What an ignorant statement...
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