Last week my roof was replaced with regular 25 year 3 tab shingles. Yesterday I checked the roof and discovered that many of the shingles have only 3 nails per shingle - and most of the nails are above the nail line, some so high they miss the underlying shingle. The manufacturer's web site clearly shows the proper method of nailing these shingles: 4 nails per shingle with each nail 5/8" above the cutout.

I talked with the building inspector, the shingle manufacturer's field representative, and my insurance adjuster. All 3 agreed this was not correct and the latter two said they would deny a claim if the shingles blew off because of this improper installation.

The building inspector suggested I set up a meeting with him, the contractor and myself to look at the problem. I'm going to try to set that up Monday.

However, the question I have is, how can this be remedied? It seems to me that the contractor would need to go back and lift each tab to check for improperly placed nails and then put another nail in the correct place. Since most of the nails are too high, this means that most shingles would have 7 or 8 nails in them - that's an awful lot of potential leaks!

He would also need to put the fourth nail in each shingle that now only has 3. With all of this crawling around on the roof, wouldn't this damage the roof and reduce its life?

TIA,
Harry

With new 3-tabs he should be able to re-nail it pretty easily.
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I don't need no freakin' signature, I Am Roofer.

The nails shouldn't cause any problems. I'd be concerned about any flashing issues. If he ddin't know how to nail a simple shingle, how can he be expected to know something as complicated as a flashing issue.
In my experience, only 1 of 10 done like this were flashed somewhat correctly.
Re-nailing will break any seals the shingles have gotten. He will need to dab 1-2 dollops of caulk on each shingle too.
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DIY Roof Help Va.
Albert's Specialty Roofing
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Yes I agree with tinner. I was going to suggest hand sealing shingles. And if he adds the nails in the correct locations it shouldn't matter for potential leaks.

[quote="tinner666"]The nails shouldn't cause any problems. I'd be concerned about any flashing issues. If he ddin't know how to nail a simple shingle, how can he be expected to know something as complicated as a flashing issue.
In my experience, only 1 of 10 done like this were flashed somewhat correctly. [snip]
[/quote]
There is far more to this story, but I felt it had nothing to do with the nailing problem so I didn't mention it. However, since you brought it up I'll add the following:

The house is about 20 years old and I bought it 4 years ago. Within 2 years after I bought it, water began to run down the front and rear of the wood fascia, sometimes puddling in the wood soffit before running out of the vents. I discovered that the sheathing had not been installed properly - there was as much as a 1 1/2" gap between the lower edge of the sheathing and the outside edge of the 2x4 that is nailed to the end of the rafter. The shingles eventually sagged into that gap, allowing water to run back behind the fascia.

When I asked for an estimate, I showed the roofer the problem (I went up on the ladder with him) and he assured me it would be fixed properly. Also, when his crew showed up to put on the roof I went up on the ladder to show them the problem and they said they would fix it correctly.

With the very first rain after the new roof was installed water ran down the front of the fascia in numerous places. The roofer claimed it wasn't his problem but he came out and looked at it. He said the gutter wasn't tight against the fascia in some places (which was true), so he screwed the gutter tight against the fascia.

With the next rain little had improved. So he installed some drip edge (few houses in our area have drip edge) and with the next rain some of the results were even worse. So, he installed another type of drip edge over top of some of the first drip edge. This seems to have taken care of most of the problem.

Of course, since he didn't place the shingles so they overhung the fascia enough in the first place, now in some places the drip edge actually comes out past the lower edge of the shingle.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that I also had a leak at one of the flashings for the drain vent. So, he went up there and put some Geocel on it. But, this morning, after another rain it is still leaking - not as bad, but there are still drips.

I don't have enough roofing knowledge to know if he correctly flashed the wood chimney or valleys. But, since I haven't had any problems there in the past, I'm hoping all is well...

Harry

How long has the new roof been on? Got any pics of that drain vent? Did you check this guy out before you hired him? Was he the low bidder?

Plan on all those other things to become an issue then. If the roof is new enough, I'd get him to tear it off and re-do it properly. Though I doubt he has the skill or know-how.
Better to get him to foot the bill to have a roofer redo everything.
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Albert's Specialty Roofing
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Ever hear the old saying "putting good money after bad". You gave this clown the job and it isn't unreasonable to expect him to do it right the first time. It goes without saying that it is reasonable to allow a guy to come back and repair a few small problems that may have been overlooked or just simply happened. What you have described goes well beyond a few small problems however. This wasn't an oversight, it was either gross incompetence, negligence or both. And do you want to get on the roof and watch them nail every shingle to make sure they did it right?

I'd give the guy a brief time to pay for a re-roof. If he doesn't comply, I'd report him to the BBB and file a lawsuit. It's that simple. If you hadn't paid him the balance for completion, I bet he'd have slammed a lien on your property in short order.

[quote="shangle nailer"]How long has the new roof been on? Got any pics of that drain vent? Did you check this guy out before you hired him? Was he the low bidder?[/quote]
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The roof was put on last week. Yes, I did get a couple of pictures of the water droplets on the pipe in the attic.

Since he already Geocelled (sp?) that flashing once, I'm wondering if it's the flashing or a leak further up the roof. It is difficult to see because the roof is high at that point and the opening in the sheathing is just larger than the pipe.

The contractor is licensed in our city and he has done quite a bit of work for my neighbor (both inside and out) who highly recommended him. My neighbor had his roof replaced by the same contractor who did my roof - in fact they moved directly from his roof to mine. (Many people in our area had hail damage from a storm that came through earlier in the year, that is why he and I had our roofs replaced at the same time.)

And, to bolster my fears about this contractor, my neighbor had a major leak during the first gentle rain after he and I had our roofs replaced. The contractor came back and tore up a whole bunch of shingles in order to correct that problem.

Yes, he was the low bidder. His bid was $50 lower than another contractor and almost half that of Home Depot. However, I felt it was a reasonable bid because it was about $150 below the insurance company's estimate. Their estimate included new felt while this contractor didn't replace the felt. (I was comfortable with not having the felt replaced.)

[quote="Authentic_Dad"]Ever hear the old saying "putting good money after bad". You gave this clown the job and it isn't unreasonable to expect him to do it right the first time. It goes without saying that it is reasonable to allow a guy to come back and repair a few small problems that may have been overlooked or just simply happened. What you have described goes well beyond a few small problems however. This wasn't an oversight, it was either gross incompetence, negligence or both. And do you want to get on the roof and watch them nail every shingle to make sure they did it right?

I'd give the guy a brief time to pay for a re-roof. If he doesn't comply, I'd report him to the BBB and file a lawsuit. It's that simple. If you hadn't paid him the balance for completion, I bet he'd have slammed a lien on your property in short order.[/quote]
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I fully expected the job to be done right and was surprised by the first problem. With each new rainfall we have (and fortunately we have been having a lot of rain lately) I seem to discover new problems!

Yes, I also now realize this is not a couple of minor oversights. I hope to meet with him and the building inspector (who has already inspected and approved the job) within the next couple of days, so maybe I will have a better insight as to my options.

The contractor asked for payment the day after the roof was replaced and I wrote him a check for the full amount. (He did not ask for anything up front.) As soon as I saw the first problem with water running down the fascia and found out my neighbor had a major leak, I quickly called the bank and put a stop payment on the check.

At this point he hasn't received a dime from me. He became quite irate when I told him I had put the stop payment on the check. I told him I wanted the job done right and offered a partial payment at that time and the balance when the job was done to my satisfaction. He said he would not accept a partial payment and threatened to put a lien on my house, so this could all get rather ugly. I have an appointment with an attorney on Monday to find out what legal direction this dispute could take.

Well, I like to try to side with the roofer, but it sounds like you've been more than reasonable. Telling him you'd give partial payment now and the rest when he fixes the leaks is more than fair. I cannot believe this was unacceptable to him!!??? No one pays for a leaking roof.

I would talk to an attorney and get yourself as much documentation as possible about the leaks. Maybe even pay another local, reputable roofer that $150 bucks you saved to come diagnose any of his mistakes, and take pictures for you. Good luck.

I am worried about the kind of contractor you hired mainly because you also said you called the Home Depot. Did you truly do enough research on this guy. Most of the time, there is a good reason a guy is a low bidder and its usually because numerous problems follow. If I were you, I would have a different building inspector come out because if he signed off on the work you described, thats a problem. Call the shingle manufacturer rep, I am sure he will say there is a problem and none of the work can be warrantied.

You say the contract said for new felt and he didnt replace it but you felt comfortable with that? That makes no sense to me. What else did he not do that you feel comfortable with? It sounds to me like you got Side Job Bob out there to do your roof for you and now it is going to be a hassle for you to get the situation properly taken care of.

My advice, get the contractor who did the roof improperly, the building inspector, the shingle rep, and the laywer out at the same time. Let him know he is to either replace the roof properly or he will have to pay for another contractor to do it the right way.

I believe you and your neighbors have been taken.
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Are you a roofer or a nailer?

If it was recently installed, the tabs may be lifted easily and renailed without caulking and will properly seal when the temperature goes up.


Just out of curiosity, did you check his BBB rating, references, previous jobs before you hired this contractor?

I am not justifying his crap work, but lesson learned if you didn't.

When hiring any type of contractor, invest as much time as possible into the companies history, complaints,etc.

I give every prospective homeowner at least 100 references and I tell them to call any or all and drive by to look at our work(homeowners gave permission)

Let me try to reply to some questions in this post.

I checked with the BBB and found that this contractor was not registered with the BBB and there were no complaints against him on file. I placed a lot of faith in my neighbor's opinion of him because my neighbor has done business with him for quite a few years. My neighbors are very particular and went out and looked at a number of jobs the contractor had done.

When he gave me the estimate, he said it did not include new felt because he doesn't feel that new felt is necessary in many re-roof situations. He told me he would charge a certain amount more if I wished to have the felt replaced. I did some reading on the 'net and decided not to have it replaced unless it was in bad condition when they did the tear-off - it looked OK to me.

A problem I discovered was that because of the hail storm in the spring, a huge number of roofs are being replaced in our area. My insurance adjuster said they are swamped because many people are now beginning to call their insurance company because they see so many of their neighbors getting new roofs.

It is hard to even get a roofer out for an estimate. I called a number of them who said they would be out, but never showed up. Sure, I could have hired one of those storm chasing companies - I probably got a dozen fliers in the mail from then since the hail storm - but I wanted to hire someone local who employed local workers.

This contractor was the only local contractor who said he could do the roof before winter, and he said that was only because my neighbor had been a good customer of his for many years. Since he could move his crew directly from my neighbor's roof to mine, and have the shingles delivered in one load, it would save him a little money.

As I noted before, although he was the low bidder, his bid was only $50 lower than the next higher bidder and very close to the insurance adjuster's estimate. So, I don't think I went for the low bidder just because he was the low bidder - his bid seemed reasonable.

At one point as he and I were arguing about my "unreasonable expectations" (that rain water should not run down the front of the fascia), he admitted that maybe he didn't really pay attention to what I had showed him. I'd like to think that he is not a sleaze ball and that this is an unfortunate sequence of events which he should have handled differently.

OTOH, I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect the contractor to install the shingles in compliance with the manufacturer's instructions. Nor do I think it is acceptable for water to run down the fascia during a normal rainfall. I'll have to live with the consequences for many years, possibly costing me a lot of money if it isn't fixed properly.

Harry

Manufacturer's make a small strike zone for a reason.

Pisses me off.

For $65-$80 a square, I just don't quite understand why the strike zone isn't at leat 2 inches.

I know their are quiet a few of non-believers on this site about being a member of the BBB.(I agree they suck, but all in all, it does add some legitimacy to a company)

But, I personally would not hire any company not on the BBB.

I get plenty of work just from people looking for a roofing company on the BBB site, so it definitely pays for itself over and over.

I have had prospective customers ask if they could come to a job in progress and get on roof to watch our installation process first hand.

Good luck and hopefully you get it resolved peacefully!