DALLAS TX area......
OK- Aftr reading many of your posts, I am starting to get very concerned.
As I posted earlier, my house was just re-roofed Sat. They did a very crappy job! Nails thru shingles, Nails thru new ridgevent, did not replace any flashing or decking as stated on contract, shingles mounted backwards in my valleys for the waterflow to go under shingles, the list goes on and on..
AND per our contract, they still havnt completed the job. Such as install soffit vents, or tear down my condemned porch roof (bcz of June 2009 tornado).

All this Sales guy seems to want is my check.
Once I sensed something was fishy, I started researching proper roofing techniques via the web, and talking to diff roofing contractors in my area. I was advsd to get a roof inspection, bcz I do not know anything about roofing to argue any point, with anyone. I did just that. As suspected, my roof is installed ridiculously.
Now,.. per our contract, it states, "there will be no out of pocket expense to the homeowner" Does this mean ... I am committing Insurance Fraud?? I was getting ready to provide my complaint, and inspection report to the owner, and others, if he does not resolve this issue. But,will I get in trouble if BBB or anyone else sees our initial contract??

Now after reading this post I am wondering what type of contractor you decided to go with? Was it a storm chaser? Insured? Licensed? Cheapest? By you saying that the contract said no out of pocket makes me think you got taken by one of these stormchasers. If so, I would keep the check because just like most true stormchasers, you are going to need that money to repair and replacey our roof very soon once again.
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Are you a roofer or a nailer?

Have you brought any of the workmanship issues up to this contractor? I would NOT pay them a cent until this situation has been resolved.

I'm not an attorney, but the Texas penal code on insurance fraud refers more to the contractor than the homeowner but it all depends on the situation. Was the roofer planning to offer you some type of rebate or advertising fee? Are they accessing your depreciation?

I can't make any promises, but I am in the DFW area and visit Flower Mound frequently and would be happy to at least discuss your situation with you and try to give you some ideas on how to proceed.

Good luck!

Jon

No, they arent Storm Chasers.

I knew better than to get involved with that mess. To be honest, the only place I researched their company out on was BBB & RipOff reports website.

Now I am finding, the branch I researched out of Euless as A+ rating with BBB.
However their branch outside of Dallas area, has an F rating, for non-response to customer complaints, which are similar to mine.

They are licensed contractors, which is one of the reasons I originally chose them. Due to June tornado, I needed some extra work done, like;
my entire patio cover needs to be taken down and hauled off.

I am thinking, that I have gotten involved w/a self-centered sales guy, who was bored, & greedy, so he went off to take care of his larger commission jobs.

He very boldly stated to me, "the majority of his homes are up in the Southlake area, with the $700k - $800k homes".
He left me with the very distinct impression, the commission he is making off my $150k home, is just a drop of change in the bucket, compared to his other large commission jobs....& that my roof was not really worth his time, or effort.

Good luck with that.

Bottom line, I would not pay them until it is handled.

jmreaves wrote:

Have you brought any of the workmanship issues up to this contractor? I would NOT pay them a cent until this situation has been resolved. I'm not an attorney, but the Texas penal code on insurance fraud refers more to the contractor than the homeowner but it all depends on the situation. Was the roofer planning to offer you some type of rebate or advertising fee? Are they accessing your depreciation? I can't make any promises, but I am in the DFW area and visit Flower Mound frequently and would be happy to at least discuss your situation with you and try to give you some ideas on how to proceed. Good luck! Jon

The question about accessing the depreciation seems the question. From previous posts, the consenus seems to be that if you are only using the first check...no fraud, but if you or the roofer is putting in for the held back depreciation and to avoid the deductible it takes two invoices (one to owner and one to insurance) and this is the fraud. It would still seem like fraud if you pay the deductible to the roofer and he cuts you a check.

rayyne99 wrote:

No, they arent Storm Chasers. I knew better than to get involved with that mess. To be honest, the only place I searched them out on was BBB & RipOff reports website. Now I am finding that the branch I researched out of Euless as A+ rating with BBB, however the branch outside of Dallas area is F rating, for non-response to customer complaints, which are similar to mine. They are licensed contractors, which is one of the reasons I chose them. Plus,I needed my patio cover taken down as well. I am thinking, that I have gotten a hold of an sorry egotistical sales guy, who got lazy, didnt care, and went off to his larger commission jobs. He stated very boldly to me, that the majority of their work is up in the Southlake area, with the $700k - $800k homes. So I guess I wasnt really worth his time, and my $150k home was a quick drop in the bucket for him.

Could you explain more about different "branches" When you get a flyer for a company with a 972 and an 817 area code, I just figured it was feeding into one office. Are you saying that this could be going to two or more differnt companies that operate under one DBA

up & down the east coast.

Your question is very interesting in deed, and I will definitely have to delve a little deeper to find out the answer.

To be honest, I have absolutely no clue what their actual business is classified as.

Especially since each office tends to go by a different alias name, when researching the different cities and states.

Only thing I do know for sure, is that they are all owned by the same person, and seem to be functioning as 1 corporate company unit.
(the fact that they are not uniform by name is somewhat perplexing, I have to admit)

Does any of that make any sense?

The better business bureau lists them by different aliases as well.
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Home Owner

A) Contact a lawyer. Have them write a letter to the contractor explaining your concerns threatening further action.

B) Let them know you will have other contractor come in and re-do job to original contract spec and that you will pay this other contractor and sue them for your costs.

C) Give them 1 chance to fix what they messed up.

D) Do whatever it takes to protect your home and belongings from any potential damage due to their work.



If they're smart, they'll jump on your roof and do the right thing. If they're dumb, do everything to possible to get the right job.

If they are licensed, have your home insurance company contact their insurance company and they should pay your insurance company for putting on a new roof for you.

This will make their rates skyrocket and make them think twice about trying to screw another homeowner.



But first, it's worth the few bucks to have a lawyer send them a letter. Just that alone would make a reasonable contractor get his stuff straight.

Also, TAKE PICTURES of all your concerns and keep a log of your contact with them.

Good luck.

rayyne99


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but under your policy with your insurance company you have agreed to self insure for a certain amount. Its called a DEDUCTIBLE, this amount is the first amount of monies to paid out on a claim. If you have negotiated in anyway to avoid this you have committed insurance fraud.

Sadly to say your contractor knows this too.

Quote:

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but under your policy with your insurance company you have agreed to self insure for a certain amount. Its called a DEDUCTIBLE, this amount is the first amount of monies to paid out on a claim. If you have negotiated in anyway to avoid this you have committed insurance fraud. Sadly to say your contractor knows this too.

Actually probably not. In Texas, the statue is pretty geared towards contractor responsibility. Furthermore, it is extremely unlikely that an insurance company is going to go after an individual homeowner. They are going to go after the roofing company who repetitively breaks the law and cheats them out of thousands.

It is possible for them to go after the homeowner, but I really think in the end the contractor is the one that is going to face the worst of it. My guess is that they would probably cancel the homeowners policy making it difficult for them to get re-insured.

Here's the statute in Texas:

Sec. 27.02. CERTAIN INSURANCE CLAIMS FOR EXCESSIVE CHARGES. (a) A person who sells goods or services commits an offense if:
(1) the person advertises or promises to provide the good or service and to pay:
(A) all or part of any applicable insurance deductible; or
(B) a rebate in an amount equal to all or part of any applicable insurance deductible;
(2) the good or service is paid for by the consumer from proceeds of a property or casualty insurance policy; and
(3) the person knowingly charges an amount for the good or service that exceeds the usual and customary charge by the person for the good or service by an amount equal to or greater than all or part of the applicable insurance deductible paid by the person to an insurer on behalf of an insured or remitted to an insured by the person as a rebate.
(b) A person who is insured under a property or casualty insurance policy commits an offense if the person:
(1) submits a claim under the policy based on charges that are in violation of Subsection (a) of this section; or
(2) knowingly allows a claim in violation of Subsection (a) of this section to be submitted, unless the person promptly notifies the insurer of the excessive charges.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

Strait from the Texas Department of Insurance. I do not see where they distinguish between contractor and consumer.

It is considered fraud to use false, incomplete or misleading information – such as a receipt, repair estimate, statement of loss, legal deposition, or even a photo – to support such a claim.

In addition, if you help someone else prepare false documentation to support a claim you will be charged with fraud. Whether the claim is paid or not – it’s still a crime.

Fraud is a deception or misrepresentation for financial gain.

Like I tell everyone of my H/O, if your going to commit fraud and possible go to jail. Make it worth more than $1000.00 deductible.

In the first sentence it says that the statue applies to a person who sells goods or services.

I don't disagree that the homeowner could be in trouble if they knowingly commit fraud. The problem with roofing companies in our area is that they tell the customer to sit back, relax, and they will handle everything. Often the homeowner is unaware anything illegal might be taking place.

One reason for the confusion is deceptive advertising. Not only in roofing, but in other lines of insurance, people are bombarded with messages that say "We'll cover your deductible" whether it be roofing, auto glass, auto collision, or some other type of insurance claim.

If a roofing company had taken advantage of me in this way, I wouldn't be afraid, that's all I'm saying.

And for the record- I can't stand some of the BS that goes on. So I'm on your side Shingle, I just know more about this individuals situation.