I stated that the Timberline would be an upgrade from the 3-tab version supplied from GAF/ELK.

I prefer to NOT use the Timberlines, but many contractors still like them.

All manufacturers have some class action suits, some legitimate and some just from troll attorneys looking for a lucrative pay day.

My preference is Tamko Heritage or Certainteed LandMark Architectural shingles, but others will claim higher points for the Timberlines, so we all have our own experience and perception.

Since the GAF/Elk merger, the Timberlines Stick Together more adequately, but they are substantially lighter than they used to be.

Whats more important to you?

Ed
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Certainteed Landmarks or GAF prestiques will serve you well.
Owens Corning Durations are a decent shingle also.

I haven't seen an interlocking shingle in my area for over 15 years.
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Well, I am all new to shopping for shingles and roofing period, so I am crash-coursing myself in it all - trying to figure out what the best choice is for my location and situation.

I guess what's most important to me is I get the best roof I can for where I live. I have had to evacuate 2 hurricanes in 3 yrs. as I live on the gulf coast in a hot humid climate, with potential for wind/rainstorms. I don't want my new roof to be inadequate for my needs, nor do I want it cheaper made than what it originally had. Also, I don't want to be cheated on materials, but I am not trying to take away the roofer's profit margin either.

I want to make the best informed decisions I can, and learn about what he is trying to sell me.

Axiom,

No concerns with the abundance of lawsuits on certainteed shingles as well? Seems there is even more discontent with this manufacturer. Just don't know what to do.

Is the the Landmark shingle not a part of the defective shingles called out in the lawsuit? Or if it is, is it a changed shingle now?

Thanks.

I am not aware of any problems with the Landmark line.
Personally I have been selling Landmarks for over 13 years and have never had a problem with them of any kind.

There were cracking issues with Horizons and New Horizons.
There were many failures with the Hallmark line and some with the Independence line.
These were both organic shingles which have been discontinued.
The fiberglass version of the Independence seems to be holding up pretty well.

Timberlines have had spotty quality in my experience, mostly with granule loss.
Prestiques are a different shingle.
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-Axiom- wrote:

I am not aware of any problems with the Landmark line. Personally I have been selling Landmarks for over 13 years and have never had a problem with them of any kind. There were cracking issues with Horizons and New Horizons. There were many failures with the Hallmark line and some with the Independence line. These were both organic shingles which have been discontinued. The fiberglass version of the Independence seems to be holding up pretty well. Timberlines have had spotty quality in my experience, mostly with granule loss. Prestiques are a different shingle.

Agreed completely.

Ed
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While we are on the subject, as I keep reading, there is so much apparently that will make a difference in a new roof...what things should I make sure need to be called out/specified in general in the contract?

For instance, I just found this thread, and there seems to be an enormous amount of detail that could/could not be covered. I suppose if I don't specify, he'll go with whatever....

http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/roofers-way-my-way-advice-please-31772/

Here is a guide I created a couple of years ago, that most consumers seem to find very helpful as far as how to choose a good roofing contractor to work on your home.

Ed



Roofing is Not Brain Surgery. There are many Wrong ways to roof a house. But…There is only…One “Right Way”, By Following All of the Manufacturers Specifications. Over 90 % of All Roofs Done - DO NOT Qualify for the Manufacturers Long Term Warranty!!! ( According to studies by GAF Roofing Corp., Air Vent Inc., & Alcoa )



10 Very Important Tips You Should Always Follow


“What You Should Know Before Hiring Any Contractor!!!”


1) RELIABILITY: Verify that the contractor you call has been in business in your area for At Least 10 Years. Over 85 % of all roofing contractors are out of business in less than 5 years, way before the warranty expires and before many roofing problems begin to show up and cause problems. 85 % of those remaining do not last till the 10th year. (Department of Labor Statistics)

2) INTERVIEW: Make time to meet with any contractor you call, in person, at your home to review the proposal and detailed specifications. Try to select a Knowledgeable, Organized, Experienced, and Locally Established contractor who will take a personal interest in your roofing project. Choose one who has an established track record of many similar roofing projects done in your local area. If they will farm out your roofing job to an unknown subcontractor, you should interview them as well.

3) REFERENCES: Insist on a minimum of at least 20 - 50 recent job references & also several from each year they say they were in business. Ask for customer testimonials. Drive past several of the jobs to check for proper venting, flashing details, and general appearance. Ask previous customers if they were satisfied and if they would use them again. Contact your local building inspector for verification.

4) BUYER BEWARE: Be suspicious if any contractor requires you to get the roofing permit. The party who applies for the permit is responsible for building code compliance. What happens when the roofing specs do not conform to the local codes? Why won’t they be responsible for it? Also, Do Not Ever pay more than 50 % when paying a deposit.

5) ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER:Make sure that the contractor actually has a physical location that you can find if you need to locate them in the future, not just a mailbox etc., drop box. Do they have an actual office and material storage shop or just work out of the back of their pick up truck. Make sure they have an actual local telephone # and not just a cell phone. When problems occur, it is much easier to find someone if you already know how to, in advance. Check out his drivers license address.

6) LICENSE, INSURANCE AND BONDS: Insist on receiving a copy of the Contractors State of Illinois Roofing License, General Liability Insurance, Workers Compensation Insurance and their Roofing Bond. Don’t just assume they have it because they tell you so. They should have enough pride in themselves to include a copy for each customer.

7) PROPOSAL AND/OR CONTRACT:Insist on a very thorough and detailed written proposal and examine it for complete descriptions of the work and specifications, including approximate length of the job and payment procedures. Verbal agreements should be added to the written agreement. You MUST, by law, be advised in writing of your 3-Day “Right To Rescind” if you change your mind and receive all of your deposit money refunded to you.

8. EMPLOYEES OR SUB-CONTRACTORS: If your contractor farms out the job to a sub-contracting crew, they too must supply you with their Roofing License, General Liability and Workers Compensation Insurance and Roofing Bond. If they don’t and someone gets hurt, you may be liable. The sub-contractor should be interviewed as well. Dedicated trained experienced Employees are more desirable due to continuing training and experience.

9) CONTRACTOR TRADE ASSOCIATIONS: Quality control begins with dedication, the amount of proper knowledge and previous training from past projects and from advanced learning through many contractor trade associations. Memberships in any related trade association and certificates of completion from manufacturers product training classes authenticate the more dedicated professional.


10) USE YOUR NOGGIN: 85 % of all construction lawsuits involve roofing related problems. You only have one chance to make the “Right 1st Choice”. If one contractor tells you something extremely different than another contractor, then either do your own research or have the contractor provide documentation to justify and support his analysis, especially about Intake & Exhaust Ventilation, Plywood vs. OSB Particle Board, Ice & Water Shield & Flashings.

You need to be concerned with the initial price only once… But you are going
to be concerned about Quality…for many years to come!!!

The following named Roofing Contractor is an esteemed selected board member of the blah, blah, blah
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Ed, that's great, thanks!

What do you all think about the Malarkey Legacy shingle? I keep reading exceptional things about it. But I don't see it mentioned here very much.

I don't know if that goes out of the profit range for the roofer, but his estimate to the insurance is going to be over $9k, and as you all saw, he was only putting GAF or then suggested PABCO. And I think the square footage of my roof is only 1600+ square feet, as I remember the measurements quoted on the insurance claim. (House is only 2088 sq. feet, if that helps).

So my point is, would the malarkey legacy be a good quality shingle for my roof in my area? And if it is, would it be too much of an upgrade or not, since he is trying to get $9k for the replacement cost, or would he still be making good money, or should I expect him to say that would cost more?

KD, I know I'm a bit late to this discussion however I'm in Texas & your thread intrigues me in more than a few ways.

My questions are:

1. Do you have AllState as your insurer?

2. Was the adjuster for your claim an 'in house' employee, or was your adjustment done by an independent adjuster who is on a contracted payroll?

3. Have you had second, third, fourth inspections or visits by the insurance company?

4. Have you had the same adjuster the whole way through (doubtful since most insurers will utilize "Cat Storm" or Catastrophic Storm adjusters, & they travel a lot). There is a chance your adjuster has moved on to a different region of the USA.

5. Does your insurance co. utilize an 'outside' adjuster for the inspection & an 'inside' adjuster for all funds disbursements... or is the 'outside adjuster' the same person who has been handling your claim from start until now?

Those questions should give us an appropriate footing to start getting deeper into whether or not your insurer could be 'persuaded' to provide an entire roof replacement vs. individual shingles on selected slopes.

---------

As to the product questions, if it were me handling your project I'd go in suggesting a GAF Prestique, a Tamko Elite (I'm fond of the Painted Desert color), or a CertainTeed in the Sure Nail design. If doing the GAF shingles, I would also offer the 6 nail 130 mph. wind rating for the cost of added nails & a few bucks for crew labor. All of the shingles I have suggested are an upgrade from your 'basic' 3 Tab shingle.

In the discussion of ventilation, I use the Cobra III all the time (same as the Cobra II but it comes with nails 'snapped' into the outside edges & can be sized by hand). I have yet to experience a failure & water intrusion. If concerned about your coastal proximity, then a more baffled system can be installed, however keep in mind that lots of baffles will increase the constriction & as a consequence, less native air flow.

Additionally, for the hip roof section that provides a tight ridge cap, I would go with a powered (either solar or hardwired) attic exhaust fan. The GAF PowerMaster solar unit will move around 500 CFM's, whereas the hardwired units cam move up to 1,650 CFM's & requires the expense of an electrician.

I would then go for ridge vents on the garage gable roof areas & block off any gable ventilation soas to prevent the 'short circuiting' of a proper air flow.

I hope this all helps... It's 0339 & I've had to retype a few things as I am falling asleep here on the computer.

L8R
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I am sure that Ranch meant to say Tamko Heritage instead of Tamko Elite. The Heritage Series is an architectural shingle and the Elite is a 25 year 3-tab shingle, but as he said, he was falling asleep at the keyboard.

Ed
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RanchHand,

Thanks so much for your detailed input/questions.

Ok, let's see - my responses are in dark red:

1. Do you have AllState as your insurer?
No. Living in Seabrook and in a newly rezoned flood/high risk area, we are required to carry 3 different types of insurance for the house: 1) Homeowners: I have Nationwide; 2) Flood Insurance for flooding; and 3) Tx Windstorm and Hail. The Hurricane Ike damage falls under Tx Windstorm and Hail, which is who has to cover the claim for the roof damage. So the only insurance company I'm dealing with for the roof is Tx Windstorm, not my Homeowners' policy w/ Nationwide.

2. Was the adjuster for your claim an 'in house' employee, or was your adjustment done by an independent adjuster who is on a contracted payroll?
Since there was so much damage by Hurricane Ike at one time, Tx Windstorm sent adjusters from all over. My adjuster was sent from an out-of-state contracted company. He then turned his report into Tx Windstorm. He actually was very helpful and tried to get the roof replaced. Tx Windstorm told him no, but they never sent their own 'personal' employee. The original adjuster is long gone, as once his company turned in the info, they were off the case. I guess this is how Tx Windstorm had to handle dealing with so many claims on the Gulf Coast at once.

3. Have you had second, third, fourth inspections or visits by the insurance company?
I had a second adjuster come out in April, as we had a leak in the kitchen through an airvent when it rained heavily in April. We were evacuated during the hurricane and didn't know it leaked through this location while we were gone. They sent a different contracted company's adjuster that time. There has never been a Tx Windstorm 'inspector' out, only those 2 claims adjusters. There has not been any work done on my house yet, so no inspector. There is supposed to be an inspection by a certified Tx Windstorm inspector-type person for the roofing repair when that happens, so Tx Windstorm can approve the repair as being up to their standards in order for me to keep my Windstorm coverage that is required.

4. Have you had the same adjuster the whole way through (doubtful since most insurers will utilize "Cat Storm" or Catastrophic Storm adjusters, & they travel a lot). There is a chance your adjuster has moved on to a different region of the USA.
I think I pretty much answered that question above. I think that would be a no to the same adjuster, and a yes to a 'cat storm' adjuster.

5. Does your insurance co. utilize an 'outside' adjuster for the inspection & an 'inside' adjuster for all funds disbursements... or is the 'outside adjuster' the same person who has been handling your claim from start until now?
Not sure about this question...but the funds were sent already to me via a check from Tx Windstorm via postal mail & addressed to me and the mortgage company. I didn't see a person for that. Once the adjuster turned in his claim report to Tx Windstorm, Tx Windstorm decided what it wanted to cover, sent me an itemized claim report, and sent me the check. Again, adjusters were whoever Tx Windstorm contracted to send at the time, & is not the same as the Homeowners Insurance co. We on the coast have to have Tx Windstorm for hurricane coverage (a separate wind and hail policy).

___
Additionally, for the hip roof section that provides a tight ridge cap, I would go with a powered (either solar or hardwired) attic exhaust fan. The GAF PowerMaster solar unit will move around 500 CFM's, whereas the hardwired units cam move up to 1,650 CFM's & requires the expense of an electrician.
A power attic exhaust fan is not a great idea for my attic. I have a gas hot water heater in my attic and do not want to cause dangerous backdraft or poisonous gas issues for my home.

I would then go for ridge vents on the garage gable roof areas & block off any gable ventilation soas to prevent the 'short circuiting' of a proper air flow.
Did you look at the photos of my house at the beginning of the thread? I don't think I have gable vents. I think I only have box vents on top. See photo below. My garage is under my master bedroom. Those 2 windows are my bedroom windows, and the 2 little roof peaks above the windows have brick under them.

http://www.diychatroom.com/attachments/f9/11600d1246297863-roofer-contract-questions-installing-

KD,

Apologies for the seeming lack of attention to your prior post & while I did see your intake photos (oval slots with screening), I worked off of my memory on the inclusion of a ridge. I didn't click on the DIY link; will have to go do that after posting this (really, I oughta be packing for a holiday run to Corpus).

I also know the TX Windstorm provisions & guess I had a major brain fart. Again, I'll pull a mea culpa due to the late hour (I can't seem to find where I performed & saved 3 new Xactimate adjustments, either).

The only thing I can suggest here in regards to your claim not being approved is to attempt to move up the food chain & get someone more sympathetic to your plight. Then again, sometimes it is really a matter of whether or not you TRULY ARE in line for a total replacement vs. a repair. Often, when you get a lot of storm chasers in the area, they don't want to meddle with repairs. They want the larger payout of a total remove / replace & will try to push for this even when it's not warranted. This mantra tends to bleed into the local guys who are also trying to get the most profit in the shortest amount of time.

I've been in & out of this response for awhile; late to get packing & totally lost my train of thought...
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